2010 Prius III fuel efficiency hypermiling results

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Consider it a word to the wise. Unless of course...

If they are wise they will ignore you. As often as not your advice is wrong.

skippy.- Hide quoted text -

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Suit yourself. Ignorance is bliss.

You should know ;)

skippy.- Hide quoted text -

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Your postings here speak for themselves.

Yes, they do. Unlike you I know what I am writing about. I own a Prius and drive it every day. You OTOH claim to be an expert on a car you don't own.

That is his MO; he does the same thing in the iPhone newsgroup. And the less he knows, the more strident and bombastic he is.

So now the truth is finally out. You're not worried that someone might hurt their car. You're just worried that they might get in your way.

I bought my 2001 Prius used in 2009 with 112k miles on it. I didn't buy it to save the earth or anything like that either. I bought it to save me money. This is my first Toyota but I know from reading that they have a good rep for not breaking down a lot. At its age, and with those miles on it, I was able to buy the Prius for about the same price as any other econobox of that age, and I knew it would get decent mileage. It didn't take long to find out that I could make big improvements to that already decent mileage pretty easily.

Using the pulse and glide technique doesn't damage the car in any way. If anything it is easier on the battery than normal driving because it avoids discharging and recharging the battery. The down side is that it will annoy anyone stuck behind you when you are doing it. I know that and make it a point not to play that game when someone is stuck behind me. I will either drive normally or pull over and let them by depending on my mood and how much traffic there is.

Not using the heater doesn't hurt the car. It actually allows the engine to get up to temp quicker. In the winter I have to dress for the cold anyway. The drive to work only takes 20 minutes and it would take at least half of that to get the passenger compartment warm anyway. So why bother? I use the defroster if needed to keep from fogging up. Other that that I leave the heat off on short trips. On longer trips I use heat/defrost as needed for comfort. Either way it is of no consequence to you.

Blocking the grill off does not hurt the car. It is better for it since it allows it to get up to normal operating temp quicker. There's no down side to it during cold weather, and doing it to my car doesn't affect you in any way.

Running increased tire pressures reduces rolling resistance. The belts in the tread help maintain even contact across the width of the tread so the middle doesn't wear out prematurely. It may reduce the tire's grip slightly, but so do sand, snow, water and many other things. If you are a decent driver you know the limits of your car and drive within them. What I do with tire pressures on my car are not your concern.

I do not use a plug in block heater. Besides the initial cost of the heater the savings are minimal when the electric costs are subtracted from the savings on fuel costs. I'm interested in saving money, not just having the highest mpg.

For similar reasons I don't run special low rolling resistance tires. Besides the higher initial cost they wouldn't work in the snow. So I would either have to pay to have tires remounted twice a year, or buy a second set of rims. I doubt I would break even either way.

So there you have it. I do what I can to save a buck on my own time, on roads that are as much mine as they are yours, and I do make an effort not to get in the way of others, though I would make an exception to that if I knew it was you ;)

No, the truth was out a long time ago: you don't care about working and playing well with others, you care ONLY about yourself and your desire to play your rolling video game. The rest of the world doesn't exist as far as you're concerned.

In that context, I'm pissed that you get in my way. Absolutely.

Since you have no desire to care about the world around you, I thought maybe I'd take the tack of pointing out some facts that you might pay attention to, since they affect YOU directly and that seems to be the only thing you pay attention to.

But it does get in the way of the traffic around you, which makes you dangerous on the road to the people around you. Again, you don't care.

It's not how the engineers intended the car to be used, and the placement of the battery is an example of that. The battery expects to be in the same operating environment as the standard driver. Not the freako driver.

You keep saying these things as if you know better than the engineers who designed the car--those same engineers who didn't bother to put in a different thermostat, for example. Huh. Why do you suppose that is. Well, you don't know because you weren't privy to the design decisions, so you just went ahead and made up some story that just happens to fit in with your desire to score high on your rolling video game.

Yeah. Do you know what rolling resistance is? No, you don't. All you know is, you found something to use to play your rolling video game. You have compromised the car's ability to stop and steer (of course, you do know that changing direction involves deceleration, which is stopping, which is why you now can't turn as well--right?).

Absolutely it is. If I catch you running into me or anyone else, a presumed contributing factor is because you compromised the car by running it outside of its intended parameters. And when you run into me, or cause an accident that either blocks traffic and causes delays or, God forbid, kills someone--that's my concern. That's the concern of ALL of society.

But you refuse to see that, because you've already rationalized to yourself that your desire to play your rolling video game overrides anything else--the cost to yourself or any cost to the world around you.

In other words, you've told the world around you to f*ck off, you're busy doing what YOU want, and THEY don't matter.

At the expense of everyone around you. No, it's not your own time. When you pulse and glide in traffic, you're holding everyone up and are driving in a way that people can't predict--which makes you dangerous. When you can't stop for the light, or when you begin stopping REAL early because you know that your tires are at the edge of any reasonable traction and therefore the people behind you are held hostage to your car's deficiencies with respect to normal traffic, it's NOT your own time.

You're telling the rest of the world to f*ck off because you want to be selfish in an irrational way that affects everyone around you.

no surprise

skippy.- Hide quoted text -

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Hardly. Your ignorance speaks for itself.

Check the record. I make NO claims on Prius.

Definitely an expert on tire pressure and its effects on vehicle dynamics, which you will learn one way or another, probably at great personal expense. Remember to drive it all the way through the crash.

If an when the Prius v is available and found suitable, I won't be sub-optimizing it and endangering others -- as you have chosen to do with yours.

Oh, really, Cocoa?

I do in fact support iPhones -- and their fanboi users. Far too much.

And I tolerate those who refuse to get it, here and there. Far too much.

EXACTLY.

So what part of "The down side is that it will annoy anyone stuck behind you when you are doing it. I know that and make it a point not to play that game when someone is stuck behind me." (which you snipped) did you not understand? I made it perfectly clear that I do not get in the way of others when using pulse and glide. But that doesn't fit in with your stupid prejudice, so you snipped it and accused me of doing the exact opposit. You're a troll, pure and simple.

Except that the "facts" that you tacked on were false.

Like I said, what part of "The down side is that it will annoy anyone stuck behind you when you are doing it. I know that and make it a point not to play that game when someone is stuck behind me." (which you snipped) did you not understand?

What part of "It actually allows the engine to get up to temp quicker." (which you snipped) did you not understand? Also, as was explained to you before, being cold does not damage the battery, it just reduces its capacity till it is warmed up. If clold actually damaged it, it would be damaged every time you let the car cool off during the winter. It is heat that will damage the battery. The only time the fan comes on for the battery vent system is when it gets too warm. If they needed to be warmed by the cabin air as you claim the fan would be coming on all the time. Of course you probably knew this but chose to ignore it because it didn't fit in with your prejudices.

Do you have insulation in your house? Is it required, or could the furnace heat the house without it being insulated? Why didn't the builder put in more/better insulation? Why did you snip "It is better for it since it allows it to get up to normal operating temp quicker."?

Just because you're too stupid to know what rolling resistance is doesn't mean that I am.

Ok smart ass, quantify it. Just how much is the traction reduced? If you are routinely driving in a manner where a tiny difference in traction is enough to put you at risk then you are a menace reguardless of what your tire pressures are.

I don't tell the world around me to f*ck off, but I will tell you to.

And you're a lying asshole of a troll that likes to make s*it up.

LOL, I'm selfish for trying to save gas. Go argue that one with the greentards that will tell you that you are selfish if you don't do everything you can to use less fuel. You ought to get along great with them.

Sumitomo T4s are rated as low rolling resistance tires and what our local Toyota Service Centers sell as replacements for the OEM tires. At Tire Rack, they have been one of the more affordable tires although last week I learned they had gone from $50/tire I first paid to $66/ tire. I've been pretty happy with them in North Alabama.

Winter tires have more to do with superior winter grip and safety more than economics. I"ve never lived far enough North to consider them a realistic option. Most of the time, snow storms shutdown the whole area and we all take a 'snow day.' But if I lived in areas where snow is considered 'part of the climate,' I'd probably have a set on steel rims and swap them in the fall and spring.

Bob Wilson

If you knew half as much about the iPhone as you think you do, you would know ten times as much as you actually do.

But please continue to display your ignorance both here and there; you do provide comic relief.

As do your lame replies.

Why would they expose themselves that way with regard to liability?

The engineers have spoken, for the record. They have nothing else to say, specifically.

No reasonable person would expect the engineers to have any say, one way or another, for public consumption.

Again, you're leaping to huge conclusions based on how you wish the world worked--without any actual facts at your disposal.

"justify their cost"? To WHOM? Are you now in charge of determining for me the cost *I* must bear so that YOU can save gas? Are you now in charge of determining that *I* must accept your wildly gyrating driving style and your out of spec suspension (yes, tires and their inflation are part of the suspension that the engineers craft very carefully) simply because YOU declare it to be "justified"???

I don't expect to be driving next to someone who is randomly speeding up and slowing down. That's not how the world works. But YOU have declared that it "shall be so" simply because YOU think it's "justified"??

How would you know? Just because you never hear the curses of the people around you as you slip and slide in the wet, slow down way early for no apparent reason, and speed up and slow down in traffic again for no apparent reason, doesn't mean they're not there.

And do let us know when you've trashed your car early, causing the build of a new car. Oh, we know you won't--but I guarantee you will remember this when you see the early death of this car.

He's betting with his warranty, auto and umbrella insurance. Good luck.

On Jan 31, 5:18 pm, "Elmo P. Shagnasty" wrote:

There are many angry and reckless drivers in the Washington DC Area and you don't have to hypermile or drive a particular way to meet them - they are just naturally riskier, more aggressive, impatient, and often angry. I see them weave in and out of traffic, race to a stop light, ignore traffic laws, and go way over the speed limit. Local traffic congestion seem to make these drivers stand out more. When you drive in the Washington DC area there's not way to avoid them - one of those crazy driver left my friend's father paralyzed for life - who was obeying all the laws ( and he wasn't hypermiling). when he was severly injured. What was not in his favor was that he was hit while in a Sentra

- which is a fairly light car with very little side impact protection.

It is a myth that all hypermiling techniques are dangerous and that hypermiling techniques impede traffic. The velocity range in a Pulse and Glide can be adjusted to current traffic conditions as to be unnoticeable. For example, a PG range of 6 mph would hardly be noticeable in most urban/suburban traffic conditions. In addition, techniques like Driving without Brakes/Traffic Light timing - do not decrease the flow of traffic and has the added benefit of smoothing out the flow of traffic and eliminating rubber band stop and go jerking motion that is often associated with traffic jams. Hypermiling is not about driving one particular way but about learning how to select and adapting one of many diffrent energy efficient driving techniques to a specific driving environment. Hence, one could read a thick book on hypermiling techniques but if one never practiced hypermiling in the real world - one would never really understand how to apply it in the real world.

Before I did grill block - I did extensive research on its safety, why it worked, what kind of results to look for, and what things should be monitored. Most of the information I got on grill blocking was from PriusChat.com from a Japanese Prius enthusiat called Ken. Ken had engineering diagrams, tables, and charts for the 2010 Toyota Prius to back up his analysis and ssesessment and he has a good reputation on PriusChat.com for being technologically savvy, open, honest, and forthcoming. He was one of the reasons I purchased a Prius. I also would like to acknowledge the generous photo contributions of "Spidey" as well. I must say that I would not have even considered grill blocking if it was not so throughly researched and the information was so easily accessible. The coverage of this technique that gave me the courage to try it out. I have several documents on the Toyota Prius thermal management system works ( the link I provide previously on battery thermal management is one of them) . I am pretty sure that everything I've done so far is being safely done albeit to the ill-informed and less technically savvy it does look dangerous or atleast odd. I am not afraid but encouraged. Given Toyota's engineering reputation for reliablity - I don't think my Prius is going to have too many problems. My previous car was almost maintenance free for seven years until it was hit by an aggressive driver - what saved me was the reinforce driver's door panels.

The reason I was not endanger when I felt a lost in traction due to the tires being over inflated was that I had kept my speed down and I had work to keep a much longer distance from the vehicle in front to optimize a hypermiling technique called DWB. and a Prius (regenerative braking ) technique I call

- a Regenerate,Crawl and Stop (RCS) which means one maximizes the regenerative energy recovery using the HSI/CHG indicator while avoiding the use of my hydraulic brake way before I need to stop. When the velocity drops in a RCS to about 15 mph to 7 mph, the brake is released and the car is allowed to crawl to a stopping point. The hope is that the condition that requires a full stop will cease before the crawling must end with a full complete stop (saving the atleast some kinetic energy for the re-acceleration) During the Regeneration part, pressure to the brakes is medium so that the HSI/CHG indicator bar is between the "C" and the "H" of the "CHG" bar. During this regenerative process, if the tires appear to be slipping then the driver switches from electric generator resistance to the hydraulic braking system by pressing the brakes down hard to activate the hydraulic brakes - the antilock brakes keep the braking pressure even. When the Prius drops to a slow crawl, the tires regains its grip on the road well before it needs to stop.

My posting is not to convince people who are against hypermiling to hypermile - but to record my real world experience without biased and in detail. My results have been modest. While I am no fortune teller - I don't foresee any mechanical or legal troubles for the first two years of my long term hypermiling experiment. My first car a 1974 Chevy Vega lasted

or more.