synthetic oil

Maybe in the US, but not world wide. Don't think we even get Syntek.

Mobil is better than Mineral, but it is mineral based synthetic. There lots better oils, and some are even cheaper than Mobil 1. For what it is, it may be good, but at least in the UK it is seriously=20 over priced.

In the UK high street

4 litres Mobil 1 5w40, 0w40 or 15w40 =A330-=A335 approx. But 5 litres Millers CFS 10w40 or 10w60 full synth =A325-30 At Costco (which isn't much cheaper in the UK) 4 litres Mobil 1 5w40 or 0w40 =A325 4 litres Chevron synthetic 5w40 =A317 (yes =A317 half the highstreet price= =20 of Mobil 1) Others I mentioned in previous posts are totally mam made tailored to do=20 exactley what the makers want, not modified from base stock minerals,=20 and in many cases, partially recycled minerals at that.

--=20 Carl Robson Car PC Build starts again.

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Actually, I believe it is where it is made? In the US, it is a cracked mineral that is sold as a synthetic because of the cracking process. In Europe, it is a full synthetic (although in the past I've seen other oil brands sold as Synthetic and full synthetic for oils in their range, rather than semi and synthetic).

Not from my experience or understanding. Please cite some references. Everything I have read or heard indicates that it is a true synthetic. It's Castrol Syntec that is labeled as a "fully synthetic" but is a cracked petroleum based oil. That is not necessarily a bad thing, just different.

All of the ad-hoc testing and scientific evidence I have ever seen shows that Mobil 1 is as good as, or better than, any other synthetic oil at any price.

The price issue is your (collective Brittish) problem. I can buy Mobil

1 here in the US at WalMart for $19 per 5 qt bottle. That does not effect the quality of the oil.

If you don't want to spend the money, then don't, but that does not make it a lesser oil.

-Fred W

Of those brands, I'd only expect Silkolene to be available in the UK. It is a partly UK company itself of course.

No doubt about it. I like the 'Concorde' symbol emblazoned on a can of Silkolene btw. It's there since they were early designers of synthetic oils for aerospace use ! They say that's what gives them the edge in advanced lubrication ! Who am I to argue ?

Graham

Below is an article written by John Rowland, Silkolene/Fuchs Chief R & D=20 Chemist for 40 years.=20

Quote:=20

Costs of synthetics vary considerably. The most expensive are the=20 ?Ester? types originally only used in jet engines. These cost 6 to 10=20 times more than high quality mineral oils. The cheapest synthetics are=20 not really synthetic at all, from a chemists point of view. These are in=20 fact specially refined light viscosity mineral oils known as=20 ?hydrocracked?. These have some advantages over equivalent mineral oils,=20 particularly in lower viscosity motor oils such as 5w-30 or other oils=20 with a low ?W? rating such as 5w-50 etc and they cost about 1.5 times=20 more than good quality mineral fractions. We use several different=20 grades of this base oil, where appropriate. This is the ?synthetic?=20 which is always used in cheap oils that are labelled ?synthetic?. Yes=20 it?s a cruel world, you get what you pay for!=20

Now, you may ask, why are these special mineral oils called ?synthetic??=20 Well, it was all sorted in a legal battle that took place in the USA=20 about ten years ago. Sound reasons (including evidence from a Nobel=20 Prize winning chemist) were disregarded and the final ruling was that=20 certain mineral bases that had undergone extra chemical treatments could=20 be called ?synthetic?. Needless to say, the marketing executives wet=20 their knickers with pure delight! They realised that this meant, and=20 still does, that the critical buzz-word ?synthetic? could be printed on=20 a can of cheap oil provided that the contents included a few percent of=20 ?hydrocracked? mineral oil, at a cost of quite literally a few pence.=20

So, the chemistry of ?synthetics? is complex and so is the politics!=20

The economics are very simple. If you like the look of a smart well- marketed can with ?synthetic? printed on it, fair enough, it will not=20 cost you a lot; and now you know why this is the case. But, if you drive=20 a high performance car, and you intend to keep it for several years, and=20 maybe do the odd ?track day?, then you need a genuine Ester/PAO (Poly=20 Alpha Olefin) synthetic oil, such as PRO S or PRO R. This oil costs more=20 money to buy, because it costs us a lot of money to make, very simply,=20 you always get what you pay for!=20

UNQUOTE:=20

Here is a link to some specs of oils.

And Biased toward AMSoil but, "Nothing Outperforms Mobil 1? Wrong!!Just compare the technical specifications. We've got the data on the new=20Mobil 1 SuperSyn 5w30 and we've compared it to AMSOIL 5w30. Guess who=20comes out on top in every category? You guessed it ... AMSOIL!=20 According to the ASTM D4172 Four Ball Wear Test, Mobil 1 SuperSyn 5w30=20 allows 50% more wear than AMSOIL 5w30. 50%! What about NOACK volatility=20 (the measure of an oil's rate of consumption under high heat/stress=20 conditions)? Mobil 1 consumes at a rate nearly double that of AMSOIL.=20 And how about TBN (Total Base Number - the measure of an oil's ability=20 to neutralize acid build-up and corrosion)? AMSOIL has a TBN value=20 nearly 50% higher than Mobil 1.=20

Of course, there are other areas where AMSOIL comes out on top as well=20 such as a viscosity index score that is 12 points higher than the Mobil=20

1 product which isn't even on the charts (we didn't want to beat up on=20 them too badly). Why don't you take a look at the charts for yourself? "

And this link goes into quite a lot of detail over both Syntec, and=20 Mobil 1 and the PAO Synthetic/Cracked petroleum synthetic debate too.

Carl Robson Car PC Build starts again. Homepage:

"Sleeker GT Phwoar" skrev i en meddelelse news: snipped-for-privacy@news.individual.net...

"Nothing Outperforms Mobil 1? Wrong!! Just compare the technical specifications. We've got the data on the new Mobil 1 SuperSyn 5w30 and we've compared it to AMSOIL 5w30. Guess who comes out on top in every category? You guessed it ... AMSOIL!

No matter how Mobil1 is described, it's a darn good lubricant for at car engine. Producing "synth" oils since mid-seventies, they know what they're doing. Also, tests that Mobil has made over the years, their oil used in the Fomula 1, and the fact that Saab is factory filling all Saabs with Mobil1, does it for me. Saab has driven several million test-miles over the years, so they know a thing ot two about engine-lubrication. In fact, when Saab is testing a new engine, the put it in a bench, and have it go at full throttle (5,500 rpm) for 600 hours straight.

Another thing. In Sweden there' a A LOT of high performance Saabs - 300 to

500 Bhp - and more than 60% of them use Mobil1 0W-40. So I don't think, that Mobil1 is all that bad - mineral-based or not.

Cheers!

Oh I agree, however, What I was saying is, it isn't the best, and in some cases, it isn't the best value. It's still good enough for a lot of cases though. You just shouldn't kid yourself that by using Mobil 1 you are using the best of the best, to get the most wonderful protection you engine could ever get from a lubricant.

And in some cases, it isn't even totally 100% POA/Ester synthetic.

While all of the above is credible and seems accurate, it *is* written by a guy trying to sell his company's brand of oil, and he never says anything about Mobil 1 specifically.

Read through this stuff. It seems to indicate that Mobil 1 is a true synthetic. I don't see any verbage that indicate sotherwise.

Biased? No kidding. That's the understatement of the century. Everyone that has half a brain would quickly realize that Amsoil is a multilevel marketing scheme only one step removed from Shakley. Yes, they sell some reasonably good products (at an extremely inflated price), but their evidence is suspect and cannot be believed. Of course their self-interests are obvious.

How about this link?

that this test is being performed by someone that has no particular interest in either brand, I think it speaks volumes.

So a couple of guys on a bulletin board are arguing the merits of Mobil

1 and Castrol. I have heard most of this before except the part about Mobil 1 being "downgraded" from PAO based synthetic to a cracked mineral, and frankly, this does not seem like a completely credible source.

So, when will you show me any evidence that Mobil 1 is not a "true synthetic" oil? BBS posts don't cut it...

-Fred W

Wasn't Mobil 1 originally partly synthetic, then it was reformulated recently into fully synthetic? I am pretty sure that SAAB recommends using Mobil 1 in my 2004 9-3 Aero (according to my dealer).

states that it's base IS PAOs. So according to the above, Mobil 1 is fully synthetic. No?

"Dan" skrev i en meddelelse news:HKmxe.6057$ snipped-for-privacy@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com...

Of course Saab recommends Mobil1 - it's factory-fill, and also what's in the Saab "original" Turbo-oil cans. ;o))

I get Millers off the shelf at the local autfactors I use. Another has Valvolene in 5 litre and trade sized drums.

Mechanic I used once or twice uses Millers full synth, in everything from Micras to Diesel 4x4s. he bulk orders it and gets it delivered by tanker. Normaly gets the last drop of the day, so gets what left above his order for the price of a couple of pints to the driver.

Redline, Valvolene, Silkolene and Millers can be mailordered from DemonTweeks in Wrexham, or bought over the counter if you are passing.

I actually haven't seen Silkolene in any shops. Seems to be Castrol, Carlube or Homebrand almost everywhere.

I have used Millers full synthetic in my turbo diesel for many years. Motor accessory factors usually stock it. Whether its doing any better than the Magnatec that the main dealer used during its warranty period is another matter. Like most things we would only know if fundamentally sound testing was carried out. I am always surprised when the question of oil types and frequency of changing comes up that the key question is not asked. In my opinion it depends on how long you intend to keep the car.

Hi, I just switched my 94 9000cseT to mobil 1... I also used a K&N Hi-Performance oil filter (against my wallet's better judgement)... My question is this... since this is the first oil change with sythnetic, how long should I keep it in there for? 3,000 miles? 6,000 miles? Then after the first change, what would be the reccomended drain interval? I'm thinking somewhere between 6,000-10,000 - and the fitler? if its a good filter is it okay to use it for the 6,000-10,000 miles?

-Chris

1994 Saab 9000CSE Turbo 2001 Saab 9-3SE 1994 Saab 900SE V6 *RIP* 1987 Saab 9000S *RIP*

"Chris Campbell" skrev i en meddelelse news: snipped-for-privacy@news.sacoriver.net...

Hi Chris.

Just keep and eye on the colour of the oil. Does it turn too dark (black), change oil and filter. Personally, I change oil AND filter approx. every

6,000 miles (10.000 km).

Why pay the big bucks for the KN-filter, when you can get an "original" Saab-filter for a lot less. It's a perfectly good filter.

Regards Saab 9000 CSE 2,3T - '93.