My daughter is looking at the 2008 Vue with 4 cylinder engine. She wants
the 4 because of the price and fuel economy being better than the 6. We
have driven it and know it is not peppy like a 6, but willing to
tolerate it because of the extra gas mileage.
What are your opinions of the vehicle as an owner?
Daughter is a bit concerned about the four banger as she us afraid the
engine and transmission will wear out too quickly.
So owner opinions are appreciated.
Also, I noticed that some people on this group claim they negotiated the
price on the Saturn vehicles. I thought Saturn did not do this so what
is the secret?
The newer 2.4L 4 cyl ecotec engine is one of the most popular and durable
engines out there. Yes, the 6 would be much quicker than the 4 we are
talking 169hp vs 257hp, big difference. Despite the smaller engine, it is
durable and requires little maintenance. I have an ION with the smaller
ecotec 2.2L engine, have had it for a yr and it has held up well so far.
Most that I talk to have been very happy with the 4cyl engine.
Depending on how your daughter will treat her car, no engine, not a 4, 6 or
8 will be durable enough if you treat it like a disposable appliance. Treat
your car good and it will treat you good, 4 or 6. That said, if she intends
to beat on the car and is concerned about gas mileage , you are defeating
your purpose, but as long as she properly maintains the car it will hold up
well, even if she races it.
Most Saturn stores still stick to the "No Hassle No Haggle" prices and
policy they are famous for, don't expect to wheel and deal like you can at
Chevy or KIA. Don't be disappointed if they tell you so. Do expect that if
the dealership is run like a traditional Saturn store that you will leave
happily with a good deal.
I can't speak for the '08, as this is a new design Vue (Opel), but I have an
'06 with the 4 cyl.
Yes, getting it up to speed takes a little bit when comparing, but once
you're cruising above 45, it sprints up to higher speed rather decently. I
will also let you know the tranny makes a big difference. I don't know if
the '08 is still available with the 5 speed stick, but if so and your
daughter likes/can drive stick, go that route. The stick easily gets much
better mileage than the auto both around town and on the highway, in part
because you have control on the shift patterns in getting it up to speed as
well as some other reasons. I also believe cruising RPM is lower with a
stick because of the ratio. Others will be able to fill you in better if
you're looking for specifics. The other main thing between the two is
durability. The 4 cyl, as was mentioned, is very durable and has a timing
chain as opposed to the 6 cyl Honda with a belt. The manual tranny is a (I
believe) Italian solid, bullet-proof tranny. I get 24 city and got 29-30 on
the highway on a recent trip. My father got a 6cyl auto 1 week after I
bought mine. I have 60K on mine and have only had to change the front
bearings and am still on my factory tires and brakes. My father is heavy on
the brakes and does not rotate his tires regularly and just got a huge bill
at his 35K check up (needed new front tires, brakes, etc)
I would stick to the stick and 4cyl as my opinion (if available)
wrote in message
I don't own one, but I've had a similar experience with a 4 versus 6
cylinder engine in the same base vehicle. As long as she is not going
to be doing any mountain driving, with a full load of passengers and
cargo, she'll be okay with the 4 cylinder. It's not as safe due to the
limited power during accelleration, but it sounds like she's alread
aware of the trade-offs already.
It's a reliable engine so this should not be an issue. I don't know
about the transmission.
No secret. Most Saturn dealers do negotiate, they just don't want to
talk about it because it makes most customers not even try. You make
it easier for them if you have a trade-in that they can jack up the
value of, versus directly cutting the price. However the "one-price"
policy has a lot of wiggle room, since the dealer is permitted to set
the price based on changing market conditions. You want to haggle in
the right way. Tell them that xyz has a similar vehicle, similarly
equipped, for a street price that's however much less than the Vue.
There's a $1500 rebate right now on the Vue so the base price is
$20,011 (for the 2.4L 169 HP engine), which is close to the street
price of the Honda CR-V (around $20,000) with a 2.4L 166 HP engine.
This is what Saturn usually does, they offer rebates to get their
prices in-line with the competition. However the problem with this is
that the add-ons are at full MSRP, which makes the Saturn cost a lot
more once you go above the base model, unless you negotiate.
Also, watch out for unscrupulous Saturn dealers that attempt to charge
_over_ MSRP, by adding on bogus fees. One dealer that my sister-in-law
went to in South Carolina was trying to charge a $199 "closing fee,"
plus they wouldn't negotiate on price, insisting on pricing her trade-
in at what it was actually worth (the nerve!). The dealer in the next
town had only a $35 "closing fee" and did negotiate on price by
inflating the value of her decrepit trade in far over even the retail
KBB value, let alone the wholesale value.
Hang_Traitor_Democrats turned on the Etch-A-Sketch and wrote:
I have the 2005 V6 with the Honda engine.
I don't know about the Vue, but I just recently rented a dodge caliber
I can tell you, it is bizarre driving a 4-cylinder. Of course, my DD is a
Chevy Avalanche with the 5.3L V8, so going to an I4 is a serious change.
But I drove the V6 Saturn today and felt much more in control having the
extra two cylinders.
Just my $02.
The 4 cyl is much more powerful in the '08 than the '07 by 26hp (143 vs
169hp).There is no more stick option in the VUE but the automatic tranny can
be manually gear changed for towing etc...Honduh and Toyota 4 cylindrs tend
to be anemic especially in the lower cost models. I have personally gotten
stuck going uphill in a corolla and had to get out and push, never had that
trouble in my old 1.9L SL2. The new VUE 4 cylinder is a 2.4L a deriviatve of
the SKY engine. I suggest driving both 4 and 6 cyl, then decide which meets
your needs best, which is nothing anybody else can tell you.
The 2.4 gets less mileage than the previous 2.2 and the 2.4 requires
higher octane fuel.
I test drove the previous Vue, 2.2L - 4 speed auto. I thought it was a
great SUV. The only kind of SUV I would own. (just never with a CVT)
The new Vue's weigh 3825lbs, the old ones were a good deal lighter
IIRC. The powertrains were always solid so the added weight should have
no impact. If it "wears out" it will be from someone not changing the
My opinion on the new Vue's is to stay away if you do not like imported
automobiles. Neither the Powertrain or Chassis is made in the States.
(Even though they cost more than the previous vue!) My advice is to save
yourself some money by buying a used 2.2L vue.
Also look at the Pontiac Vibes. The Vibe is the same thing as a Toyota
Matrix only it looks a hell of a lot better. It is at the very least
assembled in America, it has a 'timing chain', and it gets even better
-poster formally known as BlaBla
firstname.lastname@example.org is also SMS/Steven Scharf so expect
some stuff to be made up or distorted. (If it wasn't already obvious...)
Thanks but I felt it was time to retire it. It was originally blahblah
which was just me quickly filling in the required information so I could
post some quick replies. It seems ?Cronus? came out wrong. the =3f was
supposed to be a 'special character'. Cronus is associated with the
planet Saturn by the Romans so unlike before this name has some thought
put into it.
Thanks to all for the suggestions and opinions. Last night we went to
two dealerships to try and buy the 2.4L Vue. The difference in the deal
between the two dealers was - believe it or not - about $1,000. One
dealer offered $800 more on the trade-in than the other dealer and gave
us more options on the Vue versus the other dealer. So we went with the
much lower priced dealer and bought the Vue. Got more for less. Taking
This is my daughter's third Saturn. She currently has a 2002 SL1. She
had a 2000 SL1 and totaled it. We were amazed at how well she was
protected in the 2000 during her single car crash, so we bought another
one in 2002 to replace the 2000.
The good thing is now that she is out of college and on her own, the
loan is in her name and she will be paying for the Vue. She and I had a
lot of fun over the past week looking at different vehicles and she
learned a lot about the car buying process and how some dealers scam.
She also learned the "fine art" of getting up and walking out when the
dealer and the buyer cannot achieve a meeting of the minds.
Sorry AFAIK, the 2.4L IS made in the US, the VUE is assembled in Aripez
Mexico (I'm none too happy 'bout that, but look at the great improvement in
quality now). NONE of the new VUE models have a timing belt, all have chains
and are VVT. The 2.4L is a derivative of the SKY engine but only requires
regular gas, not premium and the 6cyl is a derivative of the Cadillac CTS.
Both of these engines come from the US. The transmission on both of these
vehicles is a derivative of the GM Hydra-matic. Saturn stopped using the
Honduh (belt driven) engine in '07 models as well as the 2.2L was retired.
CVT engines were a flop and retired with the '04 model year, replaced by
aisin (borg-warner) and hydra-matics. According to www.gmpowertrain.com
Ecotecs (well at least '08 and under models) were mfg in Spring Hill, the
Hydra-matics are made in Windsor, Ontario.
The only thing I do agree with is about the new 2009 Vibe GT (ala Matrix).
The '09 models look less like a mutant milk truck and have a very sporty
appeal to them. I like the new look Pontiac is going for. A definite
contender against the VUE. However, lets compare HP ratings according to
169-hp 2.4-liter I-4
222-hp 3.5-liter V-6
257-hp 3.6-liter V-6
132-hp 1.8-liter I-4
158-hp 2.4-liter I-4
Obviously, with the smaller engine, the Vibe would yield a few more (32mpg)
over the VUE (26mpg). As well I believe that the VUE is a much heavier
More useful information can be researched here:
You seem to be correct on this 2.4 engine (Spring Hill, Tenn.).
Seems like I seen these ecotecs were being made in Germany.
For their price I'd rather they were made in Spring Hill.
And what is the Sky engine a derivative of...
There are two V6's offered in the Vue.
A 3.5 which is based on the 2.8/3.1 GM engines but with VVT and a dry
Not sure where they're making these. Michigan perhaps.
(AKA GM's High-Value engine)
A 3.6 which is GM's global engine.
Produced in Ontario Canada and Port Melbourne Australia.
(AKA GM's High-Feature engine)
**Used in some Cadillacs, NOT CADILLACS ENGINE**
The 6T70 is produced in Warren Michigan
The 4T45 is produced in Ontario Canada
CVT engines? Uh what are those? :)
Never noticed the 2.4 before. New Toyota motor... Gas mileage isnt that
great but thats not the one I would suggest the OP to look at.
With gas nearing 4 dollars a gallon this is the one to look at
1.8L 132HP 26/32 mpg
The vibe weighs about 3000lbs depending on auto/manual trans. The 1.8L
will have no issue pulling it. This is more on par with Astra Coupe
which weighs about 100lbs less. The reasons why I didnt suggest the
Astra is that it is imported, has 2 doors, and has a timing belt...
((I'm not even sure the OP is still watching this thread.))
Cronus? BlahBlah? Im sooo confused, lol.
Of course, I am a veritable catalogue of useless knowledge, haha. Wikipedia
shows that the Ecotec was originally developed by GM Europe division for use
in the Opel models, which (ahem) are sisters of Saturn and have actually
been since the inception of the Saturn L-series (Opel Vectra). Opel is made
in GmBh, S. America and other parts of the world and as well AKA Vauxhall.
The Ecotec was also designed and used in other brands such as Lotus when
they were under the GM name.
BTW - the SKY was originally designed in 2003 for the '04 Frankfurt Auto
Show as a concept car for none other than Vauxhall, the following year the
chassis design went to failing Pontiac to be trialed as the Solstice, was a
smashing success and later went on as the full scale concept design under
the Saturn SKY.
Lotus is and never was part of GM... Where are you getting this
information? Lotus was no more under GM's name than Porche was under the
Harley's name when the VRods engine was designed.
Oh where do I start... No the KAPPA platform concepts were not designed
in 2003... No the Sky concept didnt become the Pontiac. You don't seem
to understand the term "Platform". There were MANY kappa bodied cars
conceptualized at the same damn time. The difference is Pontiacs body
didnt change from the 02 concept and isnt shared with Opel or Daewoo.
Tell me, do you really think Pontiac got the 02 sky design?
I'm not sure how you can give Saturn any credit for the current Sky. It
seems to me someone came up with the idea to rebadge Opels 2006 GT to
make the 2007 Saturn Sky and the 2008 Daewoo G2X to save money.
Here's a piece of Lotus's history...........
In 1986, General Motors took full control of Lotus and created Lotus Cars USA in
relationship lasted until 1993, when GM sold Lotus to Bugatti. Bugatti's
ownership was even shorter;
Lotus was sold to a Malaysian firm in 1996. The same year, Lotus began producing
Elise, a car that would quickly become the company's main product and financial
savior. The Elise
was finally imported to North America in 2004 after safety and emission
The whole article can be found here.............
Kill filters - The Enema Of The Usenet !!!!!
You missed an explanation mark, here have this one !
Ok ok you're apperently right. However they were not part of GM during
the the development of the Family II Ecotecs. Though this does explain
their envolvement with the 1.9L saturn engines and their later
involvement in the Family II Ecotecs.
I have never seen that SKY concept version, thanks for the pics. Looks like
a variation of the Curve concept. As Brian pointed out, there is some info
that needs to be corected here. I'll let you Google and Wiki all this stuff,
but I know what I say is right.
Tha SKY concept came out for the 2004 Frankfurt Auto show as a Vauxhall, yes
Vauxhall (GM) Concept, not a Pontiac or Saturn or Opel..(um,,,and the Daewoo
version wasnt even born until 2006) yes there are many vehicles that have
used the Kappa platform, including the Curve concept that never made it. It
is an indisputable fact that the SKY and the Solostice are the same vehicle.
Early pictures of the Wilmington DE plant showing BOTH vehicles in the same
assembly line and ready for shipping were released to Saturn employees back
in '05. The SKY and the Solstice are almost identical vehicles. The Solstice
went on sale back in '05...let me further explain, although you may holler,
it is truth.
Back in '05 we werer called into a meeting with our boss in Detroit. He was
saying that GM was in finaincial trouble and that most likely either Buick,
Pontiac or Saturn would be on the chopping block. Sources said that as Buick
had a older gen following and Saturn had the customer rating it was to be
failing Pontiac whose line badly needed refreshing. We were expecting to
hear the news and were suprised that instead of closing either, Pontiac was
given the basic design of the SKY and told to redesign the body to make it
thier own. It was designed after an older roadster and in '05 orders for
GM's first convertible roadster in years was available for order. Soon
after, SKYs went into production but were not for sale until nearly a year
after the Solstice hit the streets. Thats when the pics leaked from
Wilmington. Um, how do I know this? Because I saw the pictures, I was at the
shows, I had customers who wanted to trade in 1st year Solstices for SKYs
when we had the first one in thse showroom, er and we owned Pontiac and
Saturn dealerships as well.
I think I might know what I am talking about. Dont have time to Google this
stuff up, but I know that I know what I know is indisputabley true, ergo, I
will leave this thread alone. Have at it, but I know what is true. Sometimes
you hurt my head blah blah.
The Solstice that you see today looks just like it did with the 2002
concept. All you have to do is google 2002 Solstice Concept. The kappa
platform wasn't fully evolved at that time but they had their design
The Opel GT came out in 06, the Sky 07, the Daewoo 08.
They are all the same car with different badges.
Yeah the opel/sky/daewoo design appears to be based off the 2003
Vauxhall VX Lightning concept. Now how was it Pontiac given the "basic
design of the SKY and told to redesign the body". Especially in 2005
which is 3 years after they already had their body on a Kappa platform.
What older roadster?
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