Door wide open? (semi OT)

In the past some merchants, (not eBay), added a 3% charge if one used a credit card. But the practice is almost unheard of today. In fact, I think that a few states passed laws preventing the practice.

I just think that the seller just should accept the charge as part of the cost of doing business. No point on alienating potential customers...

JT

Jeff Rice wrote:

Ok, using MY experiences here in this group, I realize some of you have gotten screwed over..

Someone somehow gets my email addy (its wrong on another web site but I cant get the thing changed-not MY web page) and we converse-can I make a key for such and such.. they send me the locks, I make keys and mail back, along with note- you owe me xx $.. I have NEVER gotten shafted YET, by anyone here..

within the last 2 weeks, I ahve went to a highly restricted web site and in an auction, purchased about (at retail) $2500-3,000 worth of merchandise. The man wanted payment by check.. Sent him checks, he received same, and THAT DAY mailed out the merchandise. not even waiting for the check to clear.. now, admittedly this group has a LOT of faith in each other.. almost 3,000+ members.. asking for an item, if anyone has got one, can get replies of: yeah I got that, send me your sanil mail and I will send same.. and no money is ASKED.

DO I trust pay pal? no, not yet.. about the only way I would is opening up a separate account at some other bank and using that acc for THAT ONLY..

the places here(and there are some) that DO add on a processing fee- thats interesting that they are not supposed to.. The way around THAT is like some others do- MIN charge on a CC is $10. 97% of my customers are NOT retail.. auto shops or businesses- and for the most part, they write checks.

as for a retail customer paying with a CC, why should I pay pay pal or whoever $6-9 PER sale, when that can be in MY pocket..

--Shiva--

I go to the bank occasionally anway.... On a recent sale of a $1500 item, the eBay fees were $92. I would add to that about $45 if I'd accepted PayPal on the sale. Somehow, close to 10% in fees was more than I could stomach and clealy stated NO PayPal on this auction. The buyer was more than happy to send a check for it.

I am getting ready to drop the PayPal payment acceptance unless someone SPECIFICALLY asks to pay that way. For the first 9 years I sold on e-Bay I did not accept it and did quite well. I've only had a couple guys really want the PayPal convenience as I have always accepted personal checks as well and shipped immediately if they were SDC members.

Lee DeLaBarre Daytona62

Lee D. is on the same page as I am. My bank is very close to my shop; I pass it a couple times a day. The post office is right around the corner from that and I also pass a satellite post office a couple times a day. Inconvenience? Not for me. This country is way too lazy... I recon my mind is now completely made up, after my current round on ebay I will can paypal. I am a small seller and ten per cent is too much. That is taking the "gravy" right off the top. If I lose three per cent in sales and don't pay the ten per cent, the math is obviously still in my favor. Like Lee, I didn't do paypal for years and got along just fine. Like I said, if someone wants it bad enough they will get off their duff and get a money order. Chances are that person will be more informed about what they are buying and less likely to be a "couch potato buyer". Also less likely to be a problem. I like Lee's taking checks from SDC members idea and will use that. Thanks Lee D. for once again being the level headed voice of reason.. Studebaker George

What "math" is that? PayPal is 3%, where are you coming up with 10%? Why not drop E-Bay all together because those leeches are taking more than 3% of your sale in commissions and listing fees. Why not put your parts in the paper... wait, they charge a fee. Maybe you can put up a flyer on the bulletin board at the grocery store... if you can justify the cost of the paper and ink/toner.

Lee

You have to remember, that for many businesses, handling cash is a problem. How many C-stores would get held up by crackheads if it became widely known that they only took credit cards?

It's not just the risk of holdups, either. A large cash business creates the risk of embezzlement by employees, too.

I'm certainly no cheerleader for the "cashless society", but I can see reasons why it is coming about.

Gord Richmond

I'm pretty neutral on the ebay changes since the tilt is toward the bigger sellers. Since I'm a Powerseller, my fees will go down with the poweerseller fee discounts. As a buyer, I'd hate to see any of the small sellers go away. e

Jerry Forrester wrote:

I've pulled bids after re-reading the fine print, "no PayPal, no personal checks". For me to go to the post office or stand in line at the credit union would be at least an hour of my time for the complete round trip. In the past if it were under $20, I'd risk it and send cash... now I don't bid.

Lee

I'm far from level-headed at times, George... Have only been burned a very few times from SDC guys. It's a small enough community that I generally know someone who knows the offender and can call on them in a pinch to put a bit of pressure on the bad guy

Lee DeLaBarre Daytona62

The math is simple.... The $1500 sale cost me over 6% total eBay fees... Add to that the 3%+ in PayPal fees and eBay gets close to

It is just as easy for someone to mail me a personal check (like I said I don't hold SDC members' checks for 10 days) as it is to do a PayPal transfer. There is no special trip to the bank or P.O. to get a money order and I am sure that 99% of America still sends payment for a few bills by check.

Lee DeLaBarre Daytona62

Lee, I see your point, but a check adds a few days to the total shipping time since the check has to get to you. I still pass up non PayPal auctions when possible. Besides, I'll forget to write a check, be out of stamps, or just don't want to bother. Yea, I'm just that lazy.

Lee wrote:

I understand where the 10% (total percentage) comes from but George seemed to be having problems with the PayPal 3%, but E-Bay's 7% is acceptible. I don't know what he sells but I'm guessing it's mostly parts (under $100 transactions). PayPal is a service just like E-Bay... you just have to decide how much you're willing to pay for the transaction.

I accept PayPal, but I set a limit where I won't accept it... when I sold the '62 convertible I didn't accept PayPal. For everything else I have. I guess everyone has their limit... if I sell something for $10, I'm not going to go off over the 30 cent PayPal charge... but I'm not going to give PayPal $30 on a $1000 sale. I don't think PayPal is a bad thing and should just be tossed out all together by sellers. It looks like E-Bay is going to up their commissions, is that going to have people dropping E-Bay too?

The same goes for buying, I don't have a problem getting a money order or bank check for a $1000 purchase, but I do for a $10 purchase. Money Orders and Bank Checks purchases institute a $1-$5 fee, add postage on top of that. Then add in the extra 3-4 days for the seller to ship.

But like I have said, there are things I've looked at bidding on, then saw they didn't take Paypal so I passed on the item. So in fact, by not accepting PayPal may have actually cost the seller money in the end... because we all know in an auction, all you need is two people wanting the item.

Lee

I agree with most of what you've said. The paypal fees up to $3k are

To put this in REALLY scary terms, say you list an item for a $10 starting price. Your listing fee is $0.55 or 5.5%. Then, the item sells for you starting price ($10). Your final value fee is 8.75% of the final auction price or $0.88. Then, you accept PayPal on that $10 sale at a cost of 5.8% to the seller.

It does not take long to realize that on a simple $10 sale, you have just given away 20.05%, or just over two dollars of the ten dollars you listed the part for!

If these were all $50 sales the TOTAL fees for insertion, final value, and PayPal would range from 9.8% to 11.625% or anywhere from $4.91 to $5.81 per $50 sale (depending on starting bid price). These are all simple, no-extra auctions.

IF you were to add one picture, a reserve of any kind, and have a $25 starting bid, you are at a 12.4% eBay cost plus the 3.5% PayPal cost... 15.9% or $7.97 in fees on a $50 item is again getting high.

I'm not going to drop e-Bay as a venue to sell my stuff... It is very convenient and does get the word out to a LOT of people in a hurry. I just don't understand being upset because a seller wants to limit his costs at the e-Bay fees only and not add to his costs by anywhere from 3.5% to 5.8% by accepting PayPal.

I, too, am sure that it has cost me some sales by not accepting PayPal on some auctions or possibly that it has cost me one or two extra bids on an item. I guess it's a choice I make and will have to live with. Also, I don't mind someone making a FAIR commission on my listings but, up to 20% on a simple $10 sale is pushing it.

Lee DeLaBarre Daytona62

Compare all the ebay and paypal fees to the expense of a store setting on the side of a highway (my building is paid for, but I still have repairs, lights, water, gas, telephone, insurance etc., etc., etc.) and I think you will agree the ebay and paypal fees are a good deal. I have both an ebay store and a store on the side of the highway and I guarantee you I make more profit per item with the ebay store than I do with the physical store. Jerry

Wow, a lively discussion..nice to see on the 'ol newsgroup! I see a lot of very valid points. Jerry, you are right, the differences in cost of the old time "brick and mortar" place and the internet is quite large. I am NOT a "buisness" per se, and ebay started out as a place for us "little guys" to basically garage sale our stuff. The world's largest garage sale. Ever been to a garage sale and try to pay for an item with paypal or a credit card? For us "little guys", the associated hassle with paypal and now all it's additional rules is a little much. For now, ebay is still the best and pretty much the ONLY...and I will continue to use it. I do see a market potential for just the old car people, though, as Hemmings used to be before the internet came along. As far as Paypal and their nonsense, I recon it's time to make a small statement and go back to the way I started. Paypal is just another middleman with his hand groping in the jar. Another way to keep a log and a trail. Bye bye paypal. Studebaker George BTW, some of my very best and liveliest auctions were way before I started taking paypal. Yes Lee A., all you need is two people...and if they want it bad enough, they will fight like crazy (gambling rush, ya know!) and then get their asses to the post office and cough up a money order...

I won't argue with you at all on that one, Jerry...

Lee DeLaBarre Daytona62

I can see all sides of the debate and all things considered it is a better way than the swapmeets in my eye with one exception.I sell only small parts on ebay.It's a great way to move NOS or used parts.I do not sell sheetmetal or large items bigger than a oversize 1 box.Too much of a pain in the a.. I have done it in the past but gave it up.I take paypal or postal money orders only and have not gotten one complaint. My auctions used to include money orders from credit unions,banks,etc.but after getting some from places like "Luthers Feed-Seed Wagon Works and Money Orders" and The First National Bank of United States of Ameritus(California branch) I dropped those types.If buyers can go to a credit union they can go to a post office.I'll probably make the trip to swap at Lancaster but here is something about that to consider.It's 1,130 miles one way...thats 2,260 round trip.At 13 mpg thats roughly 173 gallons of diesel.Using the current rate of $3.45 my math says around $600 for fuel.Hotel for 8 nights @$90 is another $720. 6 swap spaces outdoors adds $180. Just for fun I'll guess $320 for meals,beverages,snacks for the week ($40.00 a day...I eat well,sue me)although thats a variable.Thats $1,820 in the red column before I even set up or sell a part.36-40 hours of drive time plus sitting at the space and as Lee D wrote the loading up for and unloading after.I can sit at home and sell a lot of parts on ebay rather than spending the time on the road.All the cost aside I'll probably still be there.

Bob40...infrequent poster so using up air space when I do "Lee" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@newsgroups.comcast.net...

IF you are a business, that deduction per mile is .53 or so cents per? around 1200 right there..

--Shiva--