Is this price a good deal for 2004 4Runner 4x4 V6 Sport Edition?

What is the sticker?

My guess is about $500 below invoice is a good price. That's about $500 above dealer cost.

Paulus wrote:

Thank you all for your advice and help.

The sticker price is $32674

It's about $700 high. You should be at least $500 under invoice on Toyotas, and invoice with those options is $29,584. Try offering $28800, and settle on $29,100, $29,300 tops. And drop the daytime running lights since the NHTSA reports that they are ineffective, plus they annoy other drivers. First thing I did was to disconnect the DRLs on my

The new 4Runner is not very popular and there is no shortage of them. I think that the MTV crowd (mall terrain vehicle) have all decided to buy Honda Pilots.

With all respect, the sticker is meaningless. You want to bargain up from dealer cost (not invoice), not down from the sticker.

The dealer cost with those options (without and factory to dealer incentives) is about $28,300. $29100 to $29300 is a fair price to pay, which is $300-500 below invoice. I've never had to pay invoice or greater for a Toyota, it's unheard of, at least in California. You usually don't even have to bargain to get under invoice, there's always a dealer with an "all at this price sale."

Because the Pilot name is new, probably a little more practical, and =A2heaper. But we know which is the better SUV (snow & unpaved-roads vehicle) .... duh!

It's a very complex answer, requiring a whole lot of information, starting with the exact equipment on the car, and the MSRP sticker price.

And the Vehicle Inquiry Report, which shows what the dealer actually paid and how long it's been on his lot - the longer the dealer has the car, the more it costs him to finance it as inventory. After 90 days, it starts costing him real money to have the car sitting there.

You have to find out what holdbacks or rebates the dealer is getting after the sale - that's an important part of how he makes his money.

The dealer has to make money on the sale, or he quickly goes out of business. You have to haggle down to a price you are comfortable with that still leaves some money for the dealer to pay the rent, keep his lights on and his help paid.

Always deal on an "Out The Door" price basis - they can play with the numbers any way they want for their accounting, but when you get a handshake (and then a signature) on "$14,900 Out The Door" that is supposed to be a rock-solid figure, they can't play games with adding on registration fees, title fees, advertising fees... (That's a sneaky way they add another $1000 profit.)

NEVER allow dealer "packs" on the car - rustproofing, fabric or paint treatments, etc, they're pure profit.

Avoid trading in your old car - either sell it private party or wait to make a separate deal /after/ the new car sale is done, or they will play with the numbers somewhere. A realistic trade-in price offer will be lower than you could sell the car for yourself, because they have to pay to get the car detailed and sell it themselves (and make some money), or wholesale it out to a used car lot.

Arrange your own financing from your bank or credit union before you go see the car dealer, you can usually do better on your own unless they're running 0% deals - again, the dealers get a kickback commission for financing, $cha-ching$...

If you do take their financing, never get blinded by the '$250 Monthly Payment' without also looking at the term, interest rate, and other details. And NEVER LEASE A CAR without checking with your accountant - for personal use cars a lease is a pure waste of money. (It's only a long term rental, you do not have any equity at the end of the contract.) The only advantage in leasing is for companies who use the vehicle for work and can write off all their vehicle expenses

- and even then, purchasing may be a better option.

If they refuse to deal down to a price you want to pay, leave. When they see you walking out, they may be motivated to shave another $500 off the price. (A smaller profit is far better than no profit at all.)

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The holdback is easy, as is the WFR and advertising kickback. Just deduct 5% from the base invoice. The factory to dealer incentives are much harder as these vary by region.

Let the dealer worry about not accepting a deal that doesn't make financial sense. Don't stay up at night worrying that you might not be leaving the dealer enough profit.

Toyota got burned with the advertising fee scam and I don't think they'll be too happy about their dealers trying that one again (a class action lawsuit resulted in a big settlement from Toyota, even though it was their independent dealers that were trying to add on the phony ad fee). The doc fee scam is still going strong, this is not a government fee and should not be more than $35, but some dealers have inflated it into the hundreds of dollars. But as you say, an out-the-door price solves that. If they want to lower the price by $200 so they can add an extra $200 onto the ad fee then that's fine.

Not only that, they often harm the vehicle. Ditto for glass etching, pin-striping, gold package, undercoating, after-market alarms, after-market extended warranties, etc. However, during negotiations you are not under any obligation to let them know that you will not be buying any of those worthless add-ons when the finance office tries to sell them (if they know that you won't buy any of that junk then they may be more reluctant to lower the base price).

But never let the dealer know this during the negotiations. And NEVER go in there saying that you'll pay cash. The dealers hate cash customers and it will affect the final price if they know in advance that they have no chance at financing you..Also, they know that the person that comes in and wants a great deal because they are paying cash is actually a naive buyer that can be taken to the cleaners.

Lately it seems that the dealers are less obnoxious about trying to sell financing, third party warranties, and WAOs (wortheless add-ons), once you say no the first time. They just want you to take the vehicle and leave so they can spend their time trying to sell this stuff to the next guy. Especially if the vehicle is not in short supply, as few vehicles are these days.

Leases are for people that are bad at math. However there are sometime subsidized leases on vehicles with very poor resale value, where leasing makes sense if you must have that particular vehicle. Leasing doesn't make sense on something like a Honda or a Toyota. On something like a Saturn, where you'll end up with negative equity on the loan because of the poor resale value, it may make sense. But whatever you do, don't buy the vehicle when the lease is over without some serious negotiating.