I posted a while back regarding an '03 Impreza that had been used as a dealer service vehicle. For several reasons, many discussed here, I've decided against it.
I have made an offer on an '04 Impreza Wagon and they have accepted. With rebates and a low interest finance rate, it's a great deal.
However, I am troubled by what I read in regard to Subaru's reliability ( below that of Toyota and Honda) and suggestions that they are so mechanically complicated that repairs (when you can find competent service) is very expensive.
I'm looking for a vehicle that I can keep for many years and which won't cost me too much if I keep it serviced so I'm wondering if this really is the right purchase for me.
I'd appreciate any input - good or bad - that might help me make my decision.
If you really want an accurate opinion sample, you've GOT TO START WITH a representative group.
That would not be the group who post in a forum such as this one. Folks who post here probably fall into 3 or more sub-groups. One would be folks who have problems with their car. Another would be folks who are knowledgeable about their cars and like to share that knowledge & help other folks out. There would also be folks, like maybe you and I, who wonder if we should buy one, what sort of questions to ask, how much should we pay, etc. My opinion is that what you read here does not represent the larger group of Subie Owners!
Before I bought mine, I began the practice (which embarrassed my wife) of stopping folks driving Subies on the street, in parking lots, malls, etc. and asking two questions; how long have you had it and would you buy another? It doesn't get more random, more objective, than that!
I bought a Subie, that was what decided it for me. (But, at one point, I almost changed my mind after reading this newsgroup for a couple of months.) I finally had to think it through. What I've said here represents my conclusions, as I did just that.
While I find your pontifications quite fascinating, they are not really very helpful. (How's that for playful?) ;-)
I'd like to know what made you decide to buy the vehicle. How long have you owned it? Have you had any trouble with it? Is it expensive to repair? Do you have trouble obtaining parts? Are there problems you didn't expect? Are you sorry you purchased it? That kind of thing....
I think this is the perfect forum for discussions such as these. Who better to advise a newbie than owners who obviously know the vehicles so well. Besides, on the one occassion I approached a stranger to ask him about his Subaru, he misunderstood my motives. He thought I was trying to pick him up! I spent the next 30 minutes trying to dodge him in Costco ! I think an NG is a much safer place. =)
I hope some of you will be willing to share your stories about why you bought your cars and how you rate them after having owned them for a while.
I too did a lot of research (2 years) on subies and stopped a few people asking them about their subies. All praises from them. So, we now have a 03 TS wagon after all that research. Almost ended up with a Forester if not for the cruise control in the TS (finally). The TS wagon is the best bang for the buck as it's loaded...etc. After much of fully testing in the brutal snowstorms of New York state last year this Christmas, we're happy with our purchase. Easy to drive, good power for automatic, easy to park, great in Snow/beach sand even with the not-so-good Re92's. Decided to continue using the RE-92's this winter. Our FWD car would never have made it though the storm that close the I 87 last year. After one year, it's drives perfectly with no problems. Just one thing, the oil change is a bit too expensive compared to other makes I think. $50 something dollars for an oilchange at Willowdale Subaru with some checks at the dealer is a bit too much!. !@#$%!! Wonder what are the other prices in the Greater Toronto area? Anyone? If you have reservations about your purchase, take a holiday drive to New England. Vermont/Hampshire area and almost every other car is a Subie. :) I still wished we're gotten the Forester intead. I like the new front look very much. :) Maybe next purchase......cheers.
I echo pretty much what has been said so far in this thread, but would like to add a little bit of my own bias :-)
As an engineer, I echew complex solutions to simple problems, no matter how sexy they seem. I like Subaru because they seem to have a soundly engineered base product. For what I can only describe as "marketing", they also offer a lot of sexy complicated options, that I can simply choose to avoid.
I do all the regular scheduled service at the dealer because they have a good rep - and have enjoyed many free ~40min rides to work after dropping the car off with many different Soobie owners - the only ones that complain about them are about automatic electronic everything cars - especially during really cold spells (Ottawa).
My Subie Wagon is as basic as they come: 5MT, 2.2L engine, AWD (vicous center diff - no fancy electronic clutch packs), manual windows, locks, not even A/C! The only thing power is the side mirrors because it is our one car and my wife and I both need the mirrors in different positions...her idea, which I initially cursed her for, but really appreciate now :-)
Aside from the clutch, a half-shaft and oil-pump seal, the car has gone 8 years and 160,000km with no surprises.
So yes, I would gladly buy another Subaru - but it would be the cheapest, most basic stripped down, manual everything version you could buy.
-- Dominic Richens | snipped-for-privacy@alumni.uottawa.ca "If you're not *outraged*, you're not paying attention!"
2 Impreza turbos (Currently WRX 5 door) and an auto Forester Sport turbo with all the gadgets, all of which worked all the time. Zero defects in every case. Bear in mind that fuel costs will be higher mainly due to AWD and directly proportional to fun factor required. I drive mine hard where practical. Like you, I asked opinions, read reviews before buying and soon found I was the one people stopped to ask my opinion of the car...including the police...as it was very rare then but with a big reputation. Buy with confidence.
Well - I think Subaru's have a pretty good rep, and that was at least part of why I bought mine (an 02 WRX wagon) - not a day has gone by where that car hasn't impressed me! While the drivetrain is certainly more complex than a simple fwd, most of the other components are about the same (the fact that it's a flat-4 doesn't really even come into play unless things go really wrong.) - service wise, for most things, I am surprised it would be more expensive for a Subaru - compared to my last car (Toyota Corolla) this car is wonderful to work on, and everything is easy to get to. If you look at Consumer reports, and compare the Honda Civic/Accord and Toyota Corolla/Camry to the Subaru Impreza, you will see that the 5 cars are all about the same - in some cases (older Corollas, as an example) the Impreza is noteably better.
Most cars, nowadays, will last a good long time if you take care of them (i.e., don't just do the bare minimum service). But note that every manufacturer has an occasional car which has issues - take the Solara posted above - normally a very reliable car, but I bet that guy wouldn't say that!
I dunno. I've found my local dealership (Flatirons in Boulder) has been pretty decent w/respect to repairs. I've got a '98OBW with 118k and no problems...the only issues have been caused by my stupidity (off-roading and cracking the header), somebody else's (rear bumper/exhaust broken after a collision) or bad service somewhere other than the dealership (didn't use the jack points correctly, bent pieces so they touched the diff housing...made a great amplifier for vibrations!).
The Outback has really performed well for me...I wouldn't hesitate to recommend it. It does great in the snow, handles well for a station wagon, and carries a bunch of stuff. Can't beat it.
Okay! You are more playful now, but still not very intuitive! :-)
Everything I said is valid and I'd not change a single point. But since your first note, you seem to have taken a new direction. From your first post, I got that you'd been reading this ng to get helpful information, but all the problems you saw were not having that effect on your deliberation.
I said, and I'll repeat it, that this newsgroup is NOT a representative sample of Subie owners. Most folks who write in must have a reason and I proposed three possible such reasons, above.
I've read a few posts who said "I've had my Subie for 4 months and I love it."
Very few. This is not the "give us your opinion of Subies" net. It is where folks come to discuss problems they have and if all you read about are problems, you soon get an idea which is, I sincerely hope, inaccurate! I find this group extremely helpful, and some of the comments indicate folks that have lots of experience with cars in general and Subies in particular. One regular poster may have once been a service advisor for Subaru dealer, he sounds that knowledgeable!
I found my idea about asking strangers to be very beneficial to my research.
They were just standing there, or sitting there, minding their own business and I pounced on them with my questions. I was amazed at how enthusiastic they became, getting out of their cars to show me around and give me a much longer spiel than I had expected. No one expected me to show up, but they were all glad to report their experiences. They had no problems to report, and all would obviously buy a Subie again. That made a very good impression on me.
What more information can you ask? How much more random and representative a sample can you expect to find in a group? Local Subie owners.... Just like I wanted to be.
But after months of reading this Ng, I was now aware of the dreaded "piston slap" the problems with defective windshield glass, bad problems with the keyless door unlocking system, etc. etc. Almost discouraged me, and that was what I thought I saw trying to come through in your first post..
But it did not quite discourage me, for now I are one! Owner, that is.
I can't be much help to you, but I'll play the game:
My Opinion I've had my Subie one month, driven it 6,000 miles, and had no problem with it except I wish it got better gas mileage. (but now I know exactly why my mileage got so bad in NM last week! :-) And I hope the darned automatic climate control system keeps working because I still haven't figured it out!
Poor you, when you tried parking lot sampling! Darn guy thought you were trying to pick him up, huh? Dodging him in Costco, sounds like a story for Life In These United States in RD! Cute! I guess you are cursed with being young and attractive and female. Now that's a problem I don't have. Oh well, we all have problems. Could be worse! Good luck!
I've owned my Forester for 11 months, right at 9400 miles. My only complaint has been the auto climate control in the winter. It seems to draw too much cold air into the cabin.
Mechanically it has been flawless. Misc problems include a stuck sunroof (in open position), got it closed with the manual tool (major pain in the a**), it repaired itself and never has failed again. The driver side window would rattle if you closed it while the door was shut, opening/closing the door would get rid of the noise--once again this problem took care of itself, it's been 2 months since this has happened! Most recently something was "popping" in the drivers seat while driving over the last three weeks--again, for some strange reason, this problem has resolved itself. Someone told me Subarus get better with age...I believe them!!!
We also had a '01 Outback LLBean. In the 23000 miles we owned it, we never experienced a single problem.
I drive 55 miles to Garcia Subaru in Albuquerque. They are fantastic to deal with! Very reasonable too!
James '03 Subaru Forester XS-P '03 Infiniti FX35/AWD/Tech Santa Fe, New Mexico
Last night I was getting my hair cut, and happened to mention my Forester in passing. The barber got all excited and told me about his '91 Legacy that now has 275000 miles on it and has never given him a moment of trouble.
For the record, I've had my '02 Forester for nearly two years now, and I'm closing in on 30,000 km. I had the clutch shimmy, and they put a new clutch in without hassle, and that's been it for problems.
I did the same thing! What struck me is that every single Subie owner I spoke to didn't merely like the car, they gushed about it!
As for the randomness of the procedure, technically I don't think it is. You sampled the people who happened to be where you were at the time. You didn't have an equal chance of talking to any Subie owner/driver in a particular population.
I have to strongly agree with GTT and ask you to take notice: One of the main reasons for the existence of this group is to help people resolve problems with their cars. The group is HEAVILY skewed towards reporting and discussing problems. As an example, when someone brings up an ABS problem with their Impreza, all the people who have ever had that problem with THEIR Impreza, and some of the people that have only HEARD about that problem, join the discussion. It makes it seem like that's a HUGE problem that lots of people have, when in reality, its just due to the nature of this forum. Very few posts say "I drove to work each day this week without incident". And by the way, we like it like that. :-}
With that out of the way, I bought a "new" 2003 WRX wagon in April of this year Santa Monica Subaru. The "check engine light" came on as I drove home from the dealership. The car had over 100 miles on it, and someone had removed a little hose under the hood that connects to the turbo. It makes lots more power like that until the ECU sees too much pressure and cuts the fuel completely. Anyway, this was a problem that was created by someone at the dealership, or someone they let drive the car, or possibly somebody who needed one of those hoses. It wasn't something Subaru did when they built it. The service dept. at Santa Monica was clueless, couldn't fix it. After a couple weeks, I took it to Irvine Subaru, where the problem was fixed immediately at no charge. No problems since then, and the car already has 18,000 spirited miles on the odometer. Hope this helps.
Well, to me it was like "throwing a dart" at a board filled with names. I just happened to hit those drivers. Seemed pretty random to me! :-)
And as for the previous comment about the oil change, they don't cost me that much, so far. I've had two already! But I have learned on this newsgroup that it certainly pays to use original equipment filters when changing the oil!
This is really a very helpful group of folks here. But it is mainly problems and questions that dominate the postings. And I, still, refuse to accept that as typical of Subarus!
I have a 2002 WRX sportwagon with 50,000+ mi. I bought it in September,
2001.
Problems:
An occasional "rattle" from the clutch when in 3rd gear under light or no-load situations around 10,000 mi. Subaru replaced the clutch.
A small crack appeared in the windshield on the inside below where the dash meets the windshield. Subaru replaced it.
I had the transmission oil changed at 40,000 mi. and the same day, the
1st gear syncos seemed to stop working. I now double clutch when going into
1st above about 3-4 mph. Many others have reported the same thing. I wish I had left it alone.
The bezel around the clock on the dash rattled. I put some tape around the little clips that hold it on.
This is about all I can think of.
Happy with the car so far? Very! Is it holding up? Seems to be except for the transmission syncro problem.
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