camry or subaru?

It's a matter of taste. 165 hp is plenty for me. You can answer your question by test driving both.

I don't understand people who find 165 inadequate, but again, it's a matter of taste.

Tom

I think 165 would be enough for me too. Only that that they don't come with the Heated Front Seats which I want for winter.

*** Two points: Wait list and price: The waiting period is growing every day shorter -- many cars are now on the lots. I would never pay more than MSRP -- if some dealer wants to charge you a premium

-- go to another dealer.

Battery replacement and cost:

The battery (in fact, the whole electrical drive train including batteries, motors, generators, etc.) is guaranteed (in California and other states that use the CA emission standards) for ten years or 150,000 miles. This is much better than the guarantee on the internal combustion engine! The electric system should be the last of your problems.

***

*** And a Camry hybrid will be available sometime in '06. Toyota has announced that a new Hybrid Camry factory will be opened in Kentucky sometime next year. ***

*** My second car is a 2001 Subaru Outback wagon. Yes, it has all wheel drive and will probably do better in snow (which I don't see very often). When my Subaru odometer gets to 300 miles I begin looking for a gas station. It costs about $40 to fill the 16-gallon tank.

When my Prius gets to about 400 miles, I start to worry. The blinking fuel light bars begin at about 480 miles. At that time, it usually needs about 8 gallons for about $20.

I have no complaints about the Prius -- it is just about perfect for my wife and I. Plenty of room for two weeks of luggage. We just finished a 2,000 mile trip from the San Francisco Bay area to the Grand Canyon, including ventures into Sequoia National Park at 7,000 feet and crossing high Sierra passes at about 8,000 feet. For the trip, the average MPG was a bit over 50.

There is no reason not to get on the Prius bandwagon.

Recently there have been some news reports that the Prius has had unexpected stalls at Freeway speeds. The NHTSA reported that 30 Prius cars had reported this.

Another poster, who works for the Los Angeles Traffic department reported that there are a total of about 200 stalls on Los Angeles freeways ***every day***.

These don't tend to make the news.

earle

*

• Nope. Not in the Prius. The MPG will be much better in city traffic, where the electric system is running near optimum. It is out on the freeways that the internal combustion engine has to deliver its power and the MPG suffers.

The EPA numbers for the '05 Prius are 60 city and 51 highway. In the real world, I would not expect to get these performances however. The EPA tests are done on special rigs with no air conditioning, radio, heat, etc. Also no wind resistance, since they are done on stationary dynamometer installations.

The best estimate is that the actual fuel consumption would be about

10% less than the EPA ratings. In other words, instead of 60/51 for Prius, it would be about 54/45. This is just about exactly my experience with my '05.

earle

*

Hi,

I don't find it surprising the everyday stalls aren't reported. The Prius is brand new (relatively) and there aren't a lot of them out there, so ANYTHING odd is gonna hit the radar screen long before the 200 people out of some 10 million living and driving the LA area everyday who experience stalls might. Especially since if one were to look more closely one might find a majority of those stalls are either "run out of gas" or "less than stellar maintenance" situations.

Any new product's gonna be under the microscope until it proves itself, especially when it's using technologies not commonly seen (at least not yet?)

Rick

Here is my amended question.

Why do people who own non-Priuses report the mileage they get when they take a long trip? If they are not driving a Prius, long trips are a best case scenario and not representative of the car's true efficiency.

Tom

Because it's easy and it's comparable with others' mileage.

Someone that drives in hilly San Francisco can't compare mileage to someone in Kansas. Likewise stop-and-go can't be compared to freeway commute miles.

OTOH, trip mileage tends to be more comparable amongst geographical strangers.