entry level 2006 wagons (to replace Corolla wagon)

I am too lazy to look through the reponses to your original query but I would point out that both Subaru models, all of them actually, are full time four wheel drive. I lived in Northern Virginia and found the Subaru performance in snow and ice to be superior to anything in a similar price range. On snowy workdays I would simple back down the (25 degree) driveway and drive off. Neighbor is just getting his first part of his drive shoveled off.

Reply to
jacklinthicum
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How much more did they pollute 20 y a g ? How much more dangerous were they? Particularly highway mileage is very much a function of drag - so I understand how not much improvement can come there. 'City' mileage has a lot to do with inertia, a lighter car would be best - but light cars will have a hard time protecting the occupants from the kinds of 'intrusion' crash testing done now, and you need some torque to get moving - that means some hp. That's why the Prius does well at the city mileage - its practically electric only, good torque and can recover energy when 'engine braking' to put back in the batteries insted of making heat and brake dust. The Prius is also good on the highway - but not that much better than some gas-only cars. An automobile is a series of compromises done within a government controlled framework trying to get YOUR dollars instead of the competition getting them.

Carl

Reply to
Carl 1 Lucky Texan

**No, it wasn't. The Jetta is/was a lovely car and I miss mine a lot. I just didn't want to deal with some problems that cropped up, I didn't have the time nor the money. If the new style Jetta comes in a wagon, give it a whirl. Hmm, poking around, I'm not seeing a wagon version yet (2006). Some people swear by the wagons because they're built in Germany while the Jetta sedan is built in Mexico and the Golf in Brazil.

However, like someone else mentioned edmunds.com is your best friend. I always reference that site heavily when I'm doing research, that's how I chose the Impreza. Also, read the forums at Edmunds, they're handy, too.

kaboomie

Reply to
kaboom

I have to point out that some FWD (Civic Si and Neon SRT-4) and RWD cars (RX-8) have LSD these days offering about the same amount of traction baseline subaru would and not giving as much opportunities to the maintenance & towing luddites to screw up your driveline.

Not an option in this particular case though since none of them are wagons. Why is that? Automakers assume that wagon lovers are cheapskates or morons? Or there's no demand for some other reason?

I guess the answer is WRX with a center diff AND a clutch. It's bad it does not have the reflexes of a knife fighter. Well, traction is not everything as one C&D article succinctly put it.

Reply to
Body Roll

I googled up this:

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I would've never guessed that frontal area of 93 Impreza is so much larger than the frontal area of a 95 Legacy. Why is that?

Check out the entry for Hummer H2 :-D

Reply to
Body Roll

Good find - was the legacy a lot smaller in '91??? Does the C&D formula consider weight?

I dunno - odd

Carl

Reply to
Carl 1 Lucky Texan

Probably narrower, a bit shorter height-wise, longer length-wise.

Once you have a set speed acceleration is zero and weight is not a part of the picture. Of course if you're in freeway in dense traffic as you typically are these days then it's another story.

Reply to
Body Roll

All good points and I agree

But still ....what happened to gas mileage over the years?

Reply to
me

Very true I agree

Reply to
me

It did not improve because

1) Customers did not care up until now. In fact the American customers have been a BIG thorn in the side of Japanese automakers asking for bigger and bigger engines. Someone must be chuckling on the other side of the pond now.

2) The curia in Washington DC did not tighten the rope against the automaker's neck further letting customers to vote with their wallets for whatever efficiency they want. I think this is very smart.

So you have more choice now that more sub 2 liter econoboxes are shipped over here. I won't be surprised if we see 1.2-1.4 liter from non US markets engines showing up as options in econocars for US a year from now if the >$3/gallon trend continues.

Subaru is in the niche between econocars and entry level luxury cars formerly occupied by midsize cars (I hope to see that segment die along with Consumer Reports). If fuel economy is a priority shop elsewhere.

Reply to
Body Roll

:-)

I'll have to defer to you on this, I'm not an expert in cars, or CR ...

ah .. thanks ..

Well, while I don't believe technology is always a cure-all, I am quite confident that it would have been quite possible to improve on the gas mileage of cars during the last 15 years. (In fact, just by chance, NPR's All Things Considered had a whole 20 minute segment just on this topic yesterday - the consensus being that this is not a technical issue, but rather a political issue).

How so?

At this point I'm looking at the Impreza 2.5i and the Ford Focus Wagon as main choices. But still looking for more options.

Esmail

Reply to
Esmail Bonakdarian

Both of those are good cars. I own and like the Impreza, and a friend has owned a Focus wagon for several years, no real problems, plus lots of room and good fuel economy. (If you don't need AWD and want good fuel economy, likely stick to FWD...)

The Mazda 3 seems a nice car, I've test driven one of those. You might consider looking at the hatchback version.

Larry Van Wormer

Reply to
Larry Van Wormer

That's one depressing radio station. Stop listening to it and your mood would instantly improve. The technology necessary to extract necessary performance from low displacement engines adds a whole lot of complexity and expense:

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0-60 for 2.5 impreza is 8.3 sec 0-60 for 1.5 Honda fit is 8.7 sec 0-60 for 2.3 Mazda 3 is 7.2 seconds.

Do you see a problem here? Most displacement and yet the worst acceleration time. Good for the engine and powertrain longevity I suppose ==> such a pig to drive though.

Reply to
Body Roll

I'm not an expert either, that's why I deferred to smart and knowledgeable people who write for Car and Driver.

I think the talk is cheap. Not sure what things were considered on that show but I doubt that laymans'R Us have a slightest idea of what it takes to design and move into production an automotive engine, let alone a car as a whole. Were things like ease of maintenance considered? Evo guys love to assert that WRX is a bitch to work on as it is. Now consider what would happen if you stick a turbo AND a supercharger into the already cramped quarters of the engine bay. I'm sure you mechanic would look forward to your service visits (let alone shit hits the fan and you'd need major engine work). Are there any love stories from mechanics servicing prius and other hybrids? I think things like that are best left in the hopefully capable hands of automotive designers. They already have a shitload of limitations they have to work within. Adding to the pile of the requirements they have to satisfy just does not lead to elegant automotive designs.

Reply to
Body Roll

On 2006-06-07, Esmail Bonakdarian penned:

I work in Boulder, live in Longmont. My husband and I like to play a game at stoplights and in parking lots where we count the Subies. Often at a light, I'm in a line of 3 or 4 in a row.

Anyway ... I have a 2004 Impreza WRX wagon. It's a lot of fun to drive, has plenty of room for me to stuff a bicycle (front wheel removed) or some skis in the back, and behaves well in nasty weather. There are at least four of these wagons in my work parking lot (that's not including sedan WRXs, Outbacks, etc).

Mileage is not so hot -- 23-25ish. Maybe would be better if most of my driving weren't within Boulder city limits, and if I didn't have a bike rack.

My main annoyance is that I feel like a slug as soon as I turn on the A/C. Maybe the newer 2.5s are a little better in that department?

Reply to
Monique Y. Mudama

Funny coincidence. I was there for BolderBoulder (I was impressed by how well organized this was!) and I was staying with a good friend in Longmont :-) Had a great burger at the Pumphouse (?)

Yes, a dark green subaru, preferably with a cracked windshield seems like a very "authentic" colorado car :-)

Hope so. Again, disappointed by the poor mileage after all these years. Since I pretty much drove straight to Boulder from near Cleveland and back a few weeks ago, I know that my 91 Corolla Wagon gets @ 36-37mpg on the highway currently.

I'll be starting to test drive some cars this week ...

Reply to
Esmail Bonakdarian

I didn't check the mileage on the only two long runs we have done in the 95 Impreza wagon but the 99 Legacy can hang around 30 mpg on interstates even in the 70-75mph range. As noted a lot depends on how even traffic is, and, it would seem, the weather. The sucker rolls and I'd love to get a dark green Roo to replace the Legacy but it looks like dark blue this time.

Reply to
jacklinthicum

You have an option to buy a Chevrolet Aveo. The difference in price between an Impreza and that contraption you would pay for many many years of gas supply and truck rental occasions when you actually do need to hault stuff. It does not look as nice as Impreza but, then, it does not look as dorky as Echo either. The there's a Suzuki Forenza. Neither of the two are nearly as good as Impreza but you'd save a lot in the car price to pay for gas. Which seems to be one of your top priorities. I think Suzuki has a looong warranty.

Reply to
Body Roll

Suzuki Forenza gets an EPA estimated 22 city, 30 highway mpg. That is the same range as the mileage I get in my Forester XS.

Suzuki Aerio only shows 25/31 mpg.

Impreza Sport Wagon lists 22/29 mpg.

Maybe Honda Fit at 33/38 mpg.

All of the above is with manual transmission.

Here is a list of all small wagons listing the mileage:

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Blair

Reply to
Blair Baucom

The Pumphouse has pretty yummy wings, too, if you're into that.

There's probably a sharp division between the Colorado of the foothills/Rockies and eastern Colorado, which bears a striking resemblance to Kansas ...

Well, for that kind of fuel efficiency, I get on my motorcycle =P

I'm not sure what my car gets highway. I think around 30. It's pretty rare that I get a chance at unobstructed highway driving; the winter I-70 drives to go skiing have too much traffic to be a good comparison.

Reply to
Monique Y. Mudama

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