Synthetic Or Syn Blend Oils In Subaru

Jerre,

As an accountant who worked for me in a tax office once put it, "My logic may be faulty, but you won't find errors in my math."

I won't argue there are many ways to "cook the books" regarding cost per mile with extended oil changes vs 3,000 mile intervals, but when the mfr specs 3,000 miles for warranty coverage regardless of the oil mfr's recommendations (as was the case at the time I did my unofficial tests, and is STILL the severe service recommendation from many in the US market) we're stuck comparing apples with apples. Like it or not, oranges won't work. (Remember how quickly Mobil 1 dropped their 25,000 mile recommendations when the auto mfrs wouldn't buy warranty claims?)

When someone can prove to me definitively that synthetics with extended change intervals will save me money, I'll listen. But in 25 years or so, all I've seen and heard is "they're better" without any numbers attached. When I looked at my own numbers, they didn't convince me. What would I like to see? Engine life including repairs of lube related components, fuel consumption, oil cost including changes, filters and between change consumption would all have to be factored in to attract my attention. In other words, TCO--total cost of operation. If TCO is less with synthetics, great. If not, I see no need to change. No "feel good" or "I sleep better" factor is included because they don't have a price.

At the time I tried Amsoil, extended change intervals of up to 25,000 miles were recommended (if one used Amsoil filters and/or a bypass system such as a Frantz or later incarnations combined with oil analysis.) Oil analysis was recommended at 5,000 mile intervals. Cost of oil analysis plus the extra oil and filter costs at the time ate up any savings from the extended change interval. Perhaps that's changed, but it wasn't the case when I worked up my numbers.

As for disposal, I've recycled every drop of oil I've ever changed since

1965 when I started changing oil, whether I was working in a shop or doing it at home. As has everyone I know who does their own oil changes. The improper disposal argument may be valid somewhere, but it holds no water for me.

We could also possibly have life supporting stations on the moon. But neither is likely to happen with current technologies, mentalities and budgets combined. From what I understand, approximately 50% of a barrel of oil goes into fuel (gasoline and diesel primarily) and perhaps even more if we consider heating oil. The amount that becomes lubricating oil is rather low. The surest way to reduce foreign oil dependence is related to reducing our consumption of fuel. Period. Quit driving those gas guzzlers, America. Period, end of argument. I don't see changing our types of lubricating oils as doing anything significant. BTW, where do synthetic oils come from? Corn fields? Soybean fields? Peanut farms? Even if they did, there's a lot of diesel fuel burned up making the raw materials. Sooner or later, it loops back to petroleum. It's all part of the "no free lunch" idea.

Question: how many Europeans routinely put 30k miles a year or more on their cars like so many American commuters do? I don't know, but if their driving habits are anything like the Japanese, who routinely dispose of their cars with only 30k or so miles (because of stringent inspection requirements and the cost of complying therewith), why bother changing oil at all? It's not cost effective, so why bother? I'm sure more than a few people have known someone like the fellow I once ran into who'd run 100k miles on dino oil without ever changing it--he changed his filter every 5k miles and topped it up and off he went. I'd have hated to see the inside of his engine, but it was still going. So extended change intervals are moot if the cars aren't driven that many miles before being disposed of. Again, apples to apples, not oranges.

Just some thoughts and opinions. Nobody has to agree.

Rick

Reply to
Rick Courtright
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Well Rick certainly has quite a few years of experience on me and its good to hear a more knowledgable perspective for my side of the argument.

Jerre's rebuttal sounded like it was cut/pasted from his corporate Amsoil dealer emails, ie referring to cutting down our dependence on foreign oil as a result of synthetic oil usage. LOL, cmon, think outside the box for a second, how could you even project that to be in our future?

As Rick and i have said, saying something is better doesn't do it for someone who, in Rick's case has done some comparison's on his own to no conclusion to Synthetics benefit, or in my case, hearing people constantly saying synthetics are better, and yet the same people just bought a WRX in

2003 and are now trading it in for an STi, and will probably trade that in in a year or two for the next great modder. In other words people who have no place recommending such things when their usage makes their recommendations irrelevant. Mind you, they also don't change their syns at the intervals that Jerre recommends, they're still changing them at 3-5K intervals. One guy i engaged in a conversation over redline doesn't even change his own oil and brings it into his scoobie dealer with the redline in hand for them to change. Its definately a mindset rather than an asset.
Reply to
Snowcatcher

It all boils down to what you want. If you like using cheap $1.00 qt oil and love changing or going somewhere to have it changed every 3000 miles, fine. If you want better oil (usually more expensive) fine. The difference is really silly to be arguing about.

We drive Subaru's (fairly expensive) when we could do with a Kia or find a old junker, both which would do the same thing as the Subaru.

Mercedes to Subaru to Kia. All can get you from point A to B.

Amsoil to Pennzoil to Walmart oil. All will pour into your engine.

I will continue using Amsoil, because I hate having to change or have the oil changed. I have better things to do with my time. It has worked for me for 20 years.

Reply to
Jerre Bassler

It all boils down to what you want. If you like using cheap $1.00 qt oil and love changing or going somewhere to have it changed every 3000 miles, fine. If you want better oil (usually more expensive) fine. The difference is really silly to be arguing about.

We drive Subaru's (fairly expensive) when we could do with a Kia or find a old junker, both which would do the same thing as the Subaru.

Mercedes to Subaru to Kia. All can get you from point A to B.

Amsoil to Pennzoil to Walmart oil. All will pour into your engine.

I will continue using Amsoil, because I hate having to change or have the oil changed. I have better things to do with my time. It has worked for me for 20 years.

Reply to
Jerre Bassler

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