Dodge Caravan 2002 Transmission Problem

True, but there is no "t" in DEXRON.

That would be difficult indeed. You are assuming those who post the statements you're objecting to couldn't possibly have inside connections.

That particular one is quite true. Be careful; you're falling into the "I've never seen it, therefore it doesn't exist" trap.

True and irrelevant.

What's your point with this question? It's nonresponsive to anything posted so far in this thread. The Toyota Corolla/Geo Prizm dichotomy was primarily based on CR's own, er, "tests".

I'm assuming no such thing and have said nothing to imply that.

I've looked for it in their reliability tables but haven't found it. Cite two models and a year.

Not irrelevant. I'd expect an older design to have its bugs worked out and its reliability to stay the same or decrease the longer it's produced, unless changes are made.

What Corolla-Prizm dichotomy? Those cars have always ranked closely, both in CR's judgement and their surveys. Show me where they didn't, either by model year or CR issue, or admit that you don't have proof.

The fact that brand twins have shown very similar CR reliability ratings indicates that CR's surveys are very repeatable, something you wouldn't expect if they were useless garbage.

It was back in the mid- to late-60's that they were making television repairmen scads of money by rating the worst sets highest and the best sets lowest. So even back then they sucked.

How can you rule out that I'm an insider?

As I said earlier, I'm a CR subscriber and have been for more than 20 years now, however, their biases on import vs. domestic car brands is just so blatant that it is ridiculous.

They should ALWAYS show similar results for identical vehicles. The trouble is, they often don't. The fact that they do sometimes doesn't negate the fact that many times they don't, when in fact they should NEVER show different results for identical vehicles.

As I also said earlier, I'm not necessarily placing the blame on CR as much as on their subscribers who submit the surveys. However, I do believe that the biases that CR publishes have affected the perceptions of their readers and these perceptions then in turn affect the survey results. I've seen enough study on human perception to know how unreliable it is and how easily many people can be swayed.

Matt

Keep a-lookin'.

Asked and answered. It's not for me to do your homework; hit your local well-stocked public library.

Amen. *clink*

. . =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D MaceFace asked:

So why did Chrysler respec the fluid 3-4 times since introducing their

1st 4-spd auto? Was it because they had no breakdown problems? =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D snipped-for-privacy@spam.thanks (Steve) incorrectly corrected with:

=A0=A0=A0=A0The fluid was never about "preventing breakdowns," it was to allow the torque-convertor clutch to be used in a partial-lock mode that no other transmission had done before. The fluid was re-specced to improve its lifetime and performance (reduction of shudder) not because it was causing failures. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

Steve, yer incorrect.

Fluid types have not changed because of lockup strategy.

Partial lockup has been around for over a decade.......and definately not specific to Mopop trannies.

GM has partial lockup......it doesn't require Mopop fluid.

neither does Ford

neither does Mercedes

and lets not even get into not sticking Honda fluid in a Honda.....whewww....now there's a shudder.

MarshMonster ~sips his crownroyal~

Keep in mind that while CR may not cater to advertisers they have to sell magazines off the magazine rack to continue to replace subscribers lost through attrition with new subscribers.

Since there's more domestic cars sold than imports in the US, (even today) if you gore the ox owned by most people, rather than the ox owned by fewer people, you will get more attention.

Ted

. ========= ========= snipped-for-privacy@nc.rr.com (Stam) wrote: (op start of thread) . Hi all, I have a 2002 Dodge Caravan automatic transmission, currently with 80K miles (mostly highway).

Since about 20K miles I started feeling some "bang" noise down shifting to second gear.

The dealer says all is OK.

They replaced pump, changed computer settings and flushed computer software but nothing helps. When I asked them to hookup that computer thing that logs events they found every excuse in the world not to do so. The problem is getting worse (and the warranty will expire soon) any ideas (on top of going to another transmission place)? Thank You

============ ============ Stam, VERY IMPORTANT here....... keep a record of everytime you go to the dealer and they ATTEMPT to fix your symptom.

3 documentations for the same repair extends the warranty on the symptom. Fact....not Fiction. It's the law.

now....... yer tranny is in dire need of an internal repair.

I find it hard to believe that they really replaced the pump. Though I do believe they probably "flashed" the computer. it's easier.

The symptom is called a "downshift clunk"

please follow yer thread for proof of my analysis of the situation.

~MarshMonster~ drinks some crown

. . (concerning consumer reports mag) =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D snipped-for-privacy@my-deja.com (larry=A0moe=A0'n=A0curly) blurts out:

Then where are we supposed to get our information, from friends and mechanics who still believe that Chevys and Fords are great and "Jap stuff" is junk?

Those of us who aren't experts or industry insiders have very few other sources of reliability information, but it seems that CR's overall reliability scores coincide well with Popular Mechanics' and the records that one large fleet leasing company keeps.

CR reliability surveys do seem to get it right for digital cameras, TVs, and central air conditioners (A/C experts seem to agree except for York, which they hold in higher regard), so why should they be so wrong about cars?

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

you jest keep trusting in CR and PM's reliabitity data.......

oh yeah........and git rid of that high mileage Mopop BEFORE the tranny takes a dump.... cuz it IS going to take a dump.

I installed 3 604 trannies last week. (fwd mopop)

I installed 2 518 trannies last week. (rwd mopop)

and.......as i sit here and think about the

12 FWD stock units and 7 RWD stock units (all mopop) sitting there on my shelf waiting to be installed........

i'm also thankfull for the truck load that i installed so far this year.

you jest keep igoring yer friendly neighborhood tech.....and reading those magazines......

oh......you may want to disregard the advertising in those magazines, and the magazines they are affiliated with......the OEMs may be spending millions on the ads....but you and i know that the real purpose of the mag is to let you know what products you can trust. don't we....

any whoooo...... never change yer tranny fluid.... always trust non techs in technical situation... and disregard all those Mopop tranny cores lying around the shop when you go get yer flashing OD light checked out at the tranny shop.........they don't mean a thing.....

~MarshMonster~ has to go check the hits on his "Swamp Land for Sale" site.

(inline) . . or is it?? . . ========= ======== snipped-for-privacy@nycmail.com (MaceFace) asked 2 questions:

So why did Chrysler respec the fluid 3-4 times since introducing their

1st 4-spd auto?

Was it because they had no breakdown problems?

======== ======== Mace,

answers to yer Qs

1) Because the materials used to make clutches have changed since then. The characteristics of the lining materials have changed with all manufacturers over the years. Though this is not the only reason.....it IS the main reason.

2) No....they know they're gonna breakdown. so does every tranny shop in the country.

(random thoughts)

Most manufactures specify their own fluid type be used and it's best to do so. (my opinion) Most manufacturers use different clutch materials and the characteristics are different from one to the other. Putting Dextron/Mercron in a Honda will let the Honda shift.....however....eventually it will feel like your running over a washboard everytime the thing shifts because Honda fluid has different friction characteristics than Dextron. Same holds true for sticking Dextron in a Mopop. Friction properties from OEM to OEM (and even within the same oem) fluid types are different because the friction characteristics of the clutch materials are different from OEM to OEM.

I stick Dextron/Mercron in most everything. most everything....with a friction modifier. But that's another war.

~MarshMonster~

A man of many contradictions...

Or, the town drunk...

^^^^^^

^^^^^^

^^^^^^

Well, um... Thanks for all that.

I already have, but apparently you haven't.

You've cited the Corolla/Prizm, but you're wrong about that pair. You haven't shown one valid example to back up your claim.

I already have, but apparently you haven't.

You've cited the Corolla/Prizm, but you're wrong about that pair. You haven't shown one valid example to back up your claim.

wrong about cars?

All I'm saying is that they're useful, and if they were really invalid it would be a strange coincidence that they agree so much.

Are you saying that Chrysler still hasn't gotten the bugs out?

I've never taken any car of mine to a garage, except for tires and dealer warranty work, and the last time I did that, about a decade ago, my problem was misdiagnosed (but I got a new belt and tensioner out of that).

I change it every 15,000 miles (Ford/Mazda, Nissan)

Never, not even those who impersonate techs and work at bad garages and claim that if the computer doesn't put out error codes then there must not be any problems.

And you are a twit for postng multiple times.

And more importantly there's no "I" in "team" or orange juice in Sunny Delight.