helical spring washers

because some people can't/won't be told. once some people quit their formal schooling, they apparently cease to have the ability to learn - if they didn't learn something before this cut-off point, they never will. examples of this extraordinary phenomenon exist on this group.

regarding locking function, using any kind of washer is missing the point. thread locking compounds are mature technology and highly effective. as is older technology like locking wire. anyone still using washers needs their head [and their torque] testing.

Interesting.

Link doesn't work... are you referring to "wave" type washers?

I've seen them used in e.g. ball and socket type linkages to take up play and prevent rattling... they work well for that application.

For bolted joints current thinking does seem to be that if any washer is required it should be a simple flat washer, and that any type of "lock" washer does not really contribute anything to the joint's tendency to self-loosen in use. If loosening does occur that is a sign that either the fastener selected was the incorrect one for the application or something like a thread locking compound, some kind of prevailing torque locking nut, or something like a Marsden nut should be used.

nate

Nate Nagel wrote in news:kqsobp0fl0 @news6.newsguy.com:

No, the thick kind that are split and twisted a bit so the ends are out of phase with each other.

Link works fine for me.

Working now, must have just hiccupped when I looked before.

Yeah, the only time I use those is when I'm putting together an old car and the FSM calls for their use. Not because I believe that it does any good, but just in case someone calls me out on not being "correct." But sometimes I will even deviate from that when it's a critical component (e.g. for control arm shaft mounts on a Studebaker I just use grade 8 flat washers and prevailing torque nuts, because of the consequences of them coming loose even if someone says "that's not right!")

nate

Nate Nagel wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@news1.newsguy.com:

I thought your Stude was highly customized.

"Highly" is an overstatement. It's actually pretty close to all Stude, just not the same one :) I just took the parts I liked best from all years and threw them together. Drivetrain is pretty much '64 Avanti with a custom driveshaft to make it work; electrics are stock but converted to 12V with a 10SI alternator, I just used the '64 starter and an aftermarket aluminum flywheel. Fortunately the body was shared with later cars so finding heater and defrost blowers was not a problem. Only thing that doesn't work is the radio. The dual-point Prestolite - which I didn't have anyway - was replaced with a franken-distributor with a MoPar pickup and Orange Box. Other than the 4-speed lever inside, it *looks* like a '55 though. The only real "bling" is under the hood. My goal was to pretty much make it look like a factory R-1

4-speed '55 coupe, if such a thing existed, although I did give into temptation and throw some aluminum valve covers on it and the louvered air cleaner from a '62 Corvette. It sounds simple, and probably is to some people, but there was a lot of fiddle-farting around to make stuff work where it wasn't intended to... hood clearance was my biggest challenge.

I have also in the past worked on some more show-oriented cars, the Stude club hasn't gotten to the point of some other clubs where they check the bolt head markings, but I do try to not deviate from "what's right" without a good reason. Critical suspension fasteners potentially loosening (and they have been known to - there was actually a service bulletin for the lower control arms directing that loosened fasteners be replaced with new bolts, special flat-ground washers, and prevailing torque nuts - so the "fix" was known even back in the late 50's) seems like a good reason to deviate!

nate

how does marsden work? ( from some of the pictures googled it looks like a free spinning nut )

It's a very old school arrangement, and I was trying to find you a good explanation online and failing... but basically it *is* free spinning when installed, then it's staked with a special tool to lock it.

I never had the special tool, nor can I find a picture of it...

nate

staking tool my ass.

now stop polluting the interwebs with your misinformation. idiot.

Maybe I've been given the wrong terminology, but on some older cars that I've worked on some of the suspension nuts look exactly like the one given in the patent you posted, however, on one flat of the nut there will be a small rectangular indentation and the nut is difficult to remove, requiring use of a wrench or ratchet the whole way off even if the threads are in excellent condition.

Every time I've asked an old school mechanic about this, they've said "oh, those are Marsden nuts, and they're staked after they've been properly torqued - that's what that indentation is" or something to that effect.

I've also been told that they were used in military applications.

I've searched online to try to find a picture of this arrangement but I'm failing miserably. Wish I had an original car that used them so I could snap a pic so you could see what I'm talking about. Searching just yields a lot of references to AR-15s which apparently have a nut that uses similar terminology but don't look anything like what I'm talking about and the nut itself is not staked but the piece it threads against.

Whenever coming across those I've always replaced them with ovalized nuts as that seems to be the modern equivalent.

nate

Something like these?

Good explanation of how they work here. Also has info on lots of other nuts.

or use the below

No, they actually look exactly like the patent that jim beam posted, but staked. I'm trying to remember an exact application; I remember fighting with them but don't remember exactly where. Definitely on a Studebaker, but it wasn't the tie rod ends - those are castle nuts.

nate

Maybe it was the lower control arm nuts.

...but all my factory parts books are well packed away in a storage locker at the moment...

nate

so you just make stuff up instead - how convenient.

You're accusing me of lying about what I've personally seen and worked on?

nate

so people can make silly videos and call it science G

a self distorting nut to bed better

what a clever bastard that Mardsen was

less-is-more to quote the makers of the perfectly cromulent phrases