Intermittent Start - No Crank - 99 Sable

You are really doing everything you can to avoid replacing your defective starter, aren't you.

On an old car it's common for the commutator to develop bad spots; ditto the contacts in the solenoid. Heat sensitivity is a classic symptom.

One of the armature windings to can open up completely, leaving you to play another round of roulette each time you try to start it, because if it stopped on a dead spot on your last start you have a problem. Install in a cheap starter just on spec.

Oh, doesn't this model have a push-on connector for the solenoid coil? Time and heat cycles cause the connector to loosen up. There's usually oil, grease, and grime in the area. Some of the replacement units have a wire lead and a crimp splice connector instead--a more reliable solution.

the solenoid's primary power post - no juice when the car is acting up.

Google,,, Worn out starter motor bushings Those bushings can do it too. There is an auto electri c shop about one mile from me. Whenever I have a worn out starter motor I t ake it over there and let them rebuild it for me.

People in this group make automobile repair more complicated than it is.

I say the more complicated cars get the more complicated they are to fix.

We're talking about a problem with the starter. I suppose that it could be some goofy, problem with the SecuriLock system but what's the point of assuming that it's a goofy problem rather than a common everyday problem? I've never had a neutral start switch fail either.

First and foremost - I thank all of you gentlemen for your responses. Not sure if I've solved this yet - but I'm getting closer. Advice is still sou ght out and appreciated.

An amendment - the thick red wire that attaches to the SOLENOID (I said the red wire attaches to the starter in the orig post) IS getting power - all the time. I must've had a bad ground for my test light the first time. Not sure if that means anything to the responders.

To further throw some light on this:

There is *no* power going thru the white/red wire from the ignition to the small middle post on the solenoid attached to the starter, when the, "no st art/no crank" occurs. (Of course, the wire goes through the starter relay, and the NSS, AND THEN down to the solenoid.) Oh, for simpler days when it was a straight shot from the battery to the starter! (from my mouth to For d designers ears)

Further effort and research shows that the small, middle ignition switch po st on the solenoid doesn't receive a signal (12 volts) when I turn the key. I had to wrap a soft leather belt around the key and tie off the belt to the steering wheel to force the key to hold in the START position, in order to test for power to the small middle ignition post on the solenoid. Oh, BTW, that wire is attached with a post/screw combo - not a push-on connecto r, as Jack alluded to. Might have been replaced before I bought it.

On Saturday, I pulled the NSS connector off the neutral safety switch, and with a bent paperclip, I jumped the #10 pinhole (#10 embossed on the outsid e of the connector - brn/prpl wire) that receives 12 volts when the key is turned to START, to the #12 pinhole connected to the White/Red wire that tr avels down to the small ignition post on the solenoid - and turned the key. Please excuse the detail. Hopefully, this will help some other poor soul down the line.

Without fail, the car started.

I want to believe its the Neutral Safety Switch, but even after replacing i t before (when I first had the problem, a few years back), it didn't help t he problem - defective NSS?

I can't leave it jumped like that for obvious reasons. And, when I did tha t, I got a green, "O/D OFF" display on the dash lights that I'd never seen before, and it triggered a "Service Engine Soon" light. I believe that was because the first time I jumped the pinholes in the NSS connector, I alrea dy had the key forced in the START position and the solenoid was activated too long after the engine started. I haven't seen it since.

I don't believe its a Starter problem. Probably the NSS - but tell me more about the Security Lock system. Are you referring to the PATS?

There was also a Clifford alarm installed before I bought it. Could that b e it? I have no idea what the alarm did. The little 1/8" mono plug jack w ore out to the point that I stopped activating it. Again, jumping the NSS connector starts the car. Not sure how the Clifford alarm is setup, but I think I'm going to try to yank that thing out.

Is the ignition switch properly adjusted?

Don't you have to have your foot on the brake, as well?

Explain, please.

the small middle post on the solenoid attached to the starter, when the, "n o start/no crank" occurs. (Of course, the wire goes through the starter rel ay, and the NSS, AND THEN down to the solenoid.) Oh, for simpler days when it was a straight shot from the battery to the starter! (from my mouth to Ford designers ears)

h post on the solenoid doesn't receive a signal (12 volts) when I turn the key. I had to wrap a soft leather belt around the key and tie off the belt to the steering wheel to force the key to hold in the START position, in o rder to test for power to the small middle ignition post on the solenoid.

That's a new one on me. I've only had to put my foot on the brake to shift out of Park. Regardless, I've tried every combination to try to force it to start - turn on/off hazard lights, windshield wipers, step on brake, mov e the shifter through all the gears a few times, blinkers, lights, interior lamps, on and on. That was how I discovered pulling back the shifter, and letting it fly forward several times to get it to start.

So - looks like the NSS or the Clifford alarm. Can anyone weigh in on the Ford alarm?

Sounds like a bad starter switch. The Sable uses a switch bolted to the column with a rod to activate it. Sounds like yours has a bad contact internally or the start terminal isn't making good contact at the wire connection.

Its been a while since I worked on a Ford/Merc T/S, but I seem to recall the column mounted switch had slots that allowed it to be adjusted 1/8 to 1/4".

They are the same thing. PATS is easier to spel.

It could be but my guess is that it's the starter because the problem happens when the engine is hot. Maybe you could shoot the starter with a garden hose to see if it solves the problem. I know, that's a whacky idea. :-)

then it's bad, or not installed/adjusted properly, or the connector is worn

GW

I would move the gearshift around holding the key on. I was doing that trying to make backup light come on. Didn't work. This an olds, NSS varied in price by about $200 . I bought the cheapest for $10 with shipping. Darned if I know why it was so cheap, but worked fine.

Greg

Bad ignition switch (the actual electrical switch behind the mechanical key one)

bad PATs or PATS issues (anti theft device)

Bad starter Give the starter a few hard wacks with a heavy object when it wont start and see if it works then, If it does, replace it.

Dirty or corroded battery cables.

bob

That bears investigating. Are you talking about the switch that the *very end* of the ignition switch cylinder fits into? Is that what you mean by i gnition switch?

I'm due to pickup a new NSS (under warranty) today. But, now I'm having do ubts about the NSS being bad. Yesterday, in the heat of the afternoon, I w ent out to start the car - wouldn't start. Perfect opportunity to exercise my "bad NSS" theory. Well, I jumpered the NSS connector - no start, no cr ank. Made no difference - I wiggled it, etc. Wouldn't start. Had to use my trick of pulling back on the column shift lever and let it fly several t imes before it started.