Mid & rear engine placement safety implications

I guess this is a first time ever I have splintered anything into a separate thread, cause this is so OT of the original OT I feel entitled to do so :^)

Do be sure to crosspost to alt.autos.porsche when replying please. [GG hate mode on] GG is significantly more retarded in its new installment (to disallow crossposting, I guess it does not map into the new age of forums and other retarded web apps). [GG hate mode off]

> > ...the one with the driver who stays out of accidents. > > > > > > > > > You can only minimize the risk of a accident but it's impossible to > > bring it down to zero risk. Hanging your feet in front of practically > > the entire mass of a vehicle greatly enhances your chances of being > > crippled.

You mean the issue is the heft of the engine sitting at least behind the front row of the occupants putting them at risk of being rear ended by the engine in case of the accident?

it seems to me that in the day and age of high strength steels it's a matter of engineering the underside of the car in such a way that engine sheers the bolt mounts and rides under the body (under the hopefully integral steel skid plates) forward possibly popping the front up in case you crash the thing into something (or you get rear ended with the force significant enough to pop the engine off its mounts)

Did anyone ever trashed a car with a rear axle weight bias (911 will do ;-) and have a video of engine impacting the manequins (or avoiding doing so)?

Reply to
isquat
Loading thread data ...

I was not talking about the configuration of the layout or the position of the motor. The positioning of the drivers legs in the front of vehicle is the problem.

If you check out the design of the old Toyota Vans you'll see that such a crash strategy is not an option.

Reply to
dsi1

I suppose, but we rear engine drivers think about that gas tank above our ankles more than the hunk of aluminum behind us. Neither have been any trouble in any of the crashes I've survived in a long series of Corvairs (I drive much less aggressively than when I was young so I don't expect more drama from here on out to test your theory)

Reply to
AMuzi

And you imagine that it is impossible to provide adequate structure to provide protection?

Reply to
Alan Baker

Somewhat, yes. At a certain speed there will not be enough structure in front of the driver to crush to prevent his brains from being scrambled, even if he never directly impacts whatever he just ran into.

nate

Reply to
Nate Nagel

you're simply not from this planet are you. vis, engines do not compress. thus, 12" in front of the engine + 4" behind it = only 16" of crush space. now, go out and find any rear engine vehicle and tell us how much crush space it has in comparison. idiot.

Reply to
jim beam

yeah, but there's a cut-off on that "more age = safer driving" theory. when you get past a certain point, your judgment/perceptions go. badly. and then you start killing people. i nearly got side-swiped off a cliff by some old guy [ironically, he looked remarkably like jobst, german accent too] who carved me up in their suburban [which would have been really ironic if it was he]. when i caught him up and started screaming at him, he couldn't understand why. "but i've been driving 60 years" he tried to say. finally the logic of "random strangers don't scream at you but people you've nearly killed do" seemed to get through. fact is, he just completely misjudged both speed and distance and that was a function of old age. sure, staying behind the wheel is pride and independence and all that, but when you get old, you need to realize, you've gotten old! and stop driving.

Reply to
jim beam

You speak as if a drivetrain couldn't slip between driver and passenger. Traditional front engine/RWD vehicle could do that easily, especially with an inline four or six cylinder engine. Not saying that that will happen in all cases, but it is possible, and one would assume that engineers have attempted to make that happen. Whereas if you are 12" from the leading edge of the vehicle you know that that is all the crush space you have.

nate

Reply to
Nate Nagel

you speak as if you're clutching at straws. like a drowning retard.

fact: a significant proportion of modern cars, perhaps the dominant portion, are fwd.

fact: if you're relying on "slippage" to save your pelvis fracture, you're out of your tiny little mind.

fact: it's deceleration rate that injures. if your drivetrain doesn't accommodate slippage, and most are extremely limited, then you're down to only 12" of crush space, not 16".

retard.

see above retard. now, stop avoiding the question - go find a single rear engine car with less than 16" of crush space out front.

Reply to
jim beam

important context addition: "on my bike, "

Reply to
jim beam

No one here but me, Muzi and Nate probably know who you are referring to.

The Book (that jim beam loves to hate):

I will ride a scooter as long as I can balance - much less deadly to others.

Reply to
T0m $herman

What about the traditional USian full-size car that has a 3-passenger front bench seat?

Reply to
T0m $herman

VW Type II?

Reply to
T0m $herman

The one with no top spokes? ;)

Reply to
T0m $herman

yeah, not the best. #12 in that diagram is a freakin' unfunny JOKE.

Reply to
jim beam

the middle is for the eunuch. like nate.

Reply to
jim beam

you forget - no /bottom/ spokes!

i still challenge anyone to have a partner cut the bottom spokes out a wheel while they're sitting on the bike. it won't collapse, contrary to jobstian misunderstanding. and for $3 [the cost of about 6 spokes], it's an important philosophical lesson: if experiment doesn't match your theory, you f***ed up!

Reply to
jim beam

that's no bad thing.

that book would be great if he'd ever condescended to competent technical review and fixing the fundamental technical errors - the intent of it is perfectly sound but the execution is abysmal.

Reply to
jim beam

As a child in Quebec City, I spent time in the back of a VW Type IV - snowmobile suit, mittens and boots were mandatory for any trip over 15 minutes long, even with the optional auxiliary heater.

Reply to
T0m $herman

can't imagine. i had to wear every single piece of clothing i owned, including socks over my shoes, and that was just in oregon/seattle.

Reply to
jim beam

MotorsForum website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.