re: "Google Wallet may be making a return" (and "Why is it so complex

Lewis is correct, in my opinion, which I can back up with reliable cites: *How Anecdotal Evidence Can Undermine Scientific Results*

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*Anecdotes are not science* <https://seths.blog/2021/06/anecdotes-are-not-science/> *Anecdotes are not evidence*
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Being a well educated reasonably intelligent person, I agree with anyone, when he makes a cogent argument based on logic, sense, reason, and facts.

I completely agree with Lewis that "experience" has its place, but any one person's experience doesn't trump the experts when the situation is thus:

  1. The dozen expert's cites _all_ said it was a commonly held myth.
  2. Those who believe in the common myth produced _zero_ expert's cites.
  3. Worse, they produced easily refuted bullshit (their video & photo).

Like a sleazy politician, those who proffered those photos and their own testimonials at the same time that they _refused_ to read the cites show very clearly that this isn't about facts to them; it's about dogma.

Rest assured anyone with adult cognition would instantly notice A. Vic Smith B. Xeno C. Amuzi

A. *Vic Smith* He produced a paper of perfectly good science, which performed destructive testing on already warped rotors, where those rotors were purposefully deformed in a thousand degree oven for ten hours. While this was helpful to them (they're discussing the value of heat treatments at the factory), it's not _directly_ applicable in its entirety to this discussion.

B. *Xeno* He strongly argued that his experience trumps _all_ scientific fact.

Worse, he constructed imaginary strawmen to attack since he had no logical defense to the dozen experts' cites which were provided.

Even worse, he said he doesn't need any expert's opinion, simply because he holds his own strongly held opinions based solely on his experience and on his experience alone.

C. *Amuzi* He seems to have understood the temperature dilemma, where he hypothesized that perhaps the required temperature was achieved only locally, which is an interesting hypothesis that the experts covered in terms of the effect would be cracking.

But what destroyed his good faith is he tried to pull a sleazy political trick by showing a doctored photo from a destructive test jig (much as Vic Smith did but Vic actually provided the reference but Amuzi didn't realize I knew _instantly_ where that doctored photo came from).

In the end, people are _desperate_ to defend the myth. What's interesting is that it's exactly what the iKooks do.

No amount of logic, sense, or reason will ever sway them from what they intuit - facts to the contrary be damned.

Reply to
Andy Burnelli
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Yikes. I apologize to Amuzi!

I replied to this post "thinking" it was from Amuzi, who (along with Vic Smith) was the only person to propose an hypothesis of _how_ we can reconcile the fact that rotors at 2300 degrees would destroy braking components such that anyone "claiming" their rotors warped would have to rebuild the entire braking system if it indeed had happened.

I was actually replying to Steve (sms), by mistake... I apologize to Amuzi, since Steve did _not_ supply any logical sensible explanation like Amuzi did.

Bear in mind that I treat people as I perceive them, where Steve is a hardened politician who is no stranger to sleazy political tricks.

I apologize to Amuzi, and I openly state I made a mistake when I _thought_ I was responding to him, when it was just Steve whom I was responding to.

Steve has _never_ done even a single brake job in his entire life, but worse than that, Steve has already quoted four references which were complete bullshit at the same time Steve didn't even _read_ the dozen cites from the experts.

As when Steve promotes Verizon at all costs over T-Mobile (the car group won't understand that but the rest of you certainly will), Steve always has an agenda (as he does saying the government can brake any law they want to if it's to protect _him_ from Covid)...

Bear in mind, I respect the experience of Xeno. I respect the fact Vic Smith produced a scientific article. I respect that Amuzi proposed an hypothesis of differential heating.

But I can't respect people like Alan Baker and Steve Scharf simply because there is no possible way to reach a logic-based synapse in their brain.

I openly and publicly apologize to Amuzi!

Reply to
Andy Burnelli

Hi AMuzi,

First off, let me state what should be obvious, but what might not be: a. I am a well educated scientist & engineer which means I'm extremely familiar with "things" that "seem" to be one way, but which aren't. b. I'm also well trained in how to formulate and defend an hypothesis, having been on a team who published peer-reviewed papers in the biological sciences (before I turned to engineering in San Jose). c. I welcomed your argument, and that of Vic Smith, simply because both of you sincerely tried to find some way to explain the dilemma.

The dilemma is that it's well known that to make cast iron melt would take temperatures which would _destroy_ the components in a brake caliper.

Hence, anyone "claiming" that their rotors "warped", would also need to product the horribly damaged "softer" components of the braking system.

And they _never_ do. Because it didn't happen.

Yet, you brought up an intriguing hypothesis that perhaps it _did_ happen, but on a local scale, such that the brake fluid didn't boil away, and such that the rubber around the pistons didn't flame out, and such that the rotor itself didn't crack from the extreme differential temperature.

I agreed instantly that your hypothesis was worth looking deeper into. Didn't I?

Now all we need are _facts_ to back up that hypothesis, right?

I said I'm willing to see facts about differential heating causing warp, but you have to actually present facts - not desperate bullshit Amuzi.

That photo from Porsche's destructive test unit was pure bullshit, Amuzi.

You probably didn't even realize where it came from, but I've seen it in the past because everyone who is desperate looks to the same talisman.

You think I haven't _seen_ that bullshit Porsche photo a billion times?

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There isn't an argument you can come up in your desperation that I haven't heard about people defending the common myth of the warped rotor, Amuzi.

It's interesting how _desperate_ people are to defend what is a common myth where it's much like you defending that you saw God on top of the mountain.

You are ignoring the dozen experts who provided scores of facts. And then you cling to an imaginary strawman that has no substance.

Since you are desperate to lay all your claims on what it clearly a destructive test bed _designed_ to heat up the rotors to red hot conditions (by simulating a 150 mph continuous braking applications until they do) I need to ask you some simple questions about that destructive test bed.

a. Did you see the sparks & flames, or not? b. Where do _you_ think those sparks were coming from? c. Where do _you_ think those flames were coming from?

If you don't answer those two questions, I'll understand as when I ask Mohammed why he brought a chisel with him when he went to the top of the mountain to speak to God, he couldn't answer that logical question either.

Having ascertained that there was _plenty_ of destruction going on, did you look at the brake pads that were in the destructive testing videos?

No? Really?

How could you _miss_ them? They were misshapen swollen melted lumps of charred metal, Amuzi.

Now, another question for you while you're desperate to say you saw God.

Did you _look_ at the rotors after they pulled them from the vehicle? Did you notice anything "strange" about those rotors?

HINT: The experts said a rotor subject to that much heat would crack well before it ever got to the point of warp.

Having proved that the photo you provided was bullshit (in that it didn't show what you _wanted_ me to intuitively believe that it did), I am still open to intelligent adult erudite conversation on your hypothesis.

I believe in logic; not intuition. Sense; not emotion.

As I understand it, your hypothesis is that locally, on only the edges most likely, the rotor "maybe" can get to hot enough temperatures to distort, and yet, to not catastrophically crack (due to the differential heating).

That hypothesis of yours, as I said from the moment you issued it, is intriguing, and all I want from you is facts from experts backing it up.

Reply to
Andy Burnelli
<snip>

Correct.

It's rather amusing to read this thread, which somehow ended up in the iPhone and Android newsgroups, where someone who has likely never performed an actual brake job on a vehicle attempts to promulgate misinformation on the subject.

You have to wonder what the motivation is for him to lie about the issue of brake rotors warping from excessive heat.

Reply to
sms

Ooops. that was Moses. My bad! I openly apologize for that "factual" error.

But the point remains that I am allergic to bullshit.

If someone says God gave them a tablet at the top of the mountain where all we have is his word for it, I'm gonna search his pockets for that damn chisel!

Reply to
Andy Burnelli

A claim not supported by anything.

Supra.

It's also well-known that you don't have to heat a metal to its melting point for it to become plastic.

Heat has to be transmitted to those other components... ...and that doesn't happen.

It does happen.

You've been SHOWN examples.

Reply to
Alan

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