Where to get car rear-deck speakers (haven't bought speakers in decades)

I haven't worked on speakers in decades. <
http://wetakepic.com/images/2017/12/04/speakers1.jpg

How do we debug a scratchy sound?
We can isolate it with the balance to a single speaker.
But is it the speaker? Or something else?
If it's the speaker, where is a good place (other than the dealer) to get speakers to fit a car rear deck? Are they all standard sizes nowadays? Or is each unique?
I'm helping the neighbor's kid refurbish a beat-up 2005 Camry where I helped her kid put in new speaker covers this weekend but the scratch sound persisted (we thought it might have been the crud or vibration from the crumbling melted-in covers).
The scratchy sound persisted even with the newly replaced covers. <
http://wetakepic.com/images/2017/12/04/speakers2.jpg

Any suggestion on how to debug the cause of the scratchiness? If it's the speakers themselves, are these things standard sizes nowadays?
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You can swap the speaker for the one from the other side. But "scratchy" sounds are apt to be rubbing voice coils which you can feel by pressing on the cone with your thumbs.

There are several standard sizes. You can buy cheap replacement speakers from chain auto parts stores. You can buy the same speakers for half as much from Parts Express but then pay postage on them. --scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

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In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 4 Dec 2017 13:14:31 +0000 (UTC), harry

Then it's the speaker. I'm assuming you used both the left-to-right balance and the front-to-rear fader so you were really listening to only one speaker at a time. If there is a problem in the left channel, it will be heard in both the front and rear speaker.

Yes.

No.

The dealer is a terrible place. Do they even sell speakers?

Crutchfield. Very reliable. Very helpful on the phone with real people. They're in Charlotte, Va. and I'm in Baltimore and I ordered something and I wasn't in a hurry but I got it the next day.
I recommend them highly despite that they did make a mistake, like other vendors do, wrt the inputs on my 2005 Solara radio. This is the E7001 radio, but I don't think E7002 is any different. These are both Navigation radios that only hold one CD, and with some such radio, if you press the CD button twice, it goes to the CD deck, and it does have a jack for a CD deck (or satellite) and they sell devices that will use such a jack for USB/AUX input. Well that doesn't work on these radios, but they took my word for it, sent me a paid-mailing label, I sent it back as if it were new, dropped it off at a UPS place, and I got my refund the next day.
I've also bought speakers from them more than once in the past. No one else has a better list of cars and their dimensions.
You SHOULD NOT MESS with dash speakers. There was a recall on dashboards from that year and a couple others, on the Solara but I'm pretty sure on the Camry too, and some of them have deteriorated so bad they replaced the dash for free. My dash has a few hairline cracks, but when I tried to lift the 3 digital gauges above the center AC outlets, I put a tiny nick in the dash, behind the gauges. Plainly my dash, also a 2005, is softer than when it was made. (But I'm prettty sure it's nowhere near bad enough to get them to replace it for free, plus the recall has expired anyhow.) I had to go at the gauges from another direction and I did get them up, to reach the radio bolts and remove the radio (long enough to unplug that device above that didn't work. I had been able to plug it in from the bottom without removing the radio.) So there is a tiny nick there
Since you refer to the deck, I assume this is really a Camry and not a Solara, which some people call a Camry Solara. And that it's a sedan and not a convertible, because the convertibles also have a woofer behind the rear seat. I don't think it's even mentioned in the owners manual or anywhere but the wiring diagram, but it's there.

For crud, I would have washed the covers in the dishwasher. It does a great job on things like this.

Yes, but there are lots of sizes, especially when you consider depth.
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wrote:

WEhy is it a terrible place"? -0 and of course they sell speakers. The right ones, that bolt in properly, even. Yes, they cost abit more than the ones that don't fit.

They will likely have "universal" speakers and adapter brackets - which usually work OK - - - - -

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In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 04 Dec 2017 14:45:35 -0500, Clare Snyder

AIUI, the dealers' speakers are no better than what they put in the car originally, but it's possible things have changed. Anyoone know? If they are no better than original, they are still useful when the original ones have been ruined somehow.

Who is talking about ones that don't fit? I've never bought a speaker from Crutchfield that didn't fit just as the original one did, except for one car. I knew from the specs printed in the catalog (before the web) that it was too deep, but I hoped magic would allow me to get it in there (or maybe I could pound out a dent in the outside of the door!). Indeed, it was just the depth they said it was, and so was the hole in my car and it didnt' fit. Hmm. I'm sure the dealer would have had speakers that fit, but I don't know that they would have been any better than what I had.

Have you dealt with Cructchfield. No speaker I ever bought from them used an adapter bracket, and none would be called universal. Of course a 6x9x2.8" speaker can univerally fit every car that accespts speakers of that size, but that doesn't make the speaker universal.
I won't be replacing my current speakers. Solaras don't use speaker cover, except maybe on the dash. So to upgrade my speakers I'd have to, I think, take off my entire inside front door panel or my entire rear seat panel. After the fiasco of my last car, I'm not going to do that.
They do sell radios that require a bracket, because the face is not the same exact shape as the original, or because one is changing from 2 or 1.5 DIN to 1 DIN, etc. But I don't think that's related.

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On 12/04/2017 10:50 PM, micky wrote:

Short of a volume limiter, I don't believe you can protect a speaker from a teenager.
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replying to harry newton, Iggy wrote: Nice work on the grills! Yeah, the scratchiness is from either a separated coil or torn cone, you'll need replacement...of both while the car is finally apart, what an "engineering" mess. Auto Parts stores, Junkyards and most anywhere pertinent online from Walmart to Crutchfield ( https://www.crutchfield.com/S-VDtdeTrOHie/ ). Crutchfield's a long time car audio site (who's now expanded) with very good customer service. They can help you replace or upgrade both rears, even saving you the measuring to tell you the size for the specific car. I prefer the polymer or plastic cone speakers, much richer sound. Manufacturer speakers are usually pretty good, so don't commit to cheapies without hearing them in the car first.
--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/maintenance/where-to-get-car-rear-deck-speakers-haven-t-bought-speakers-1152165-.htm




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On Mon, 4 Dec 2017 13:14:31 +0000 (UTC), harry newton

Not "standard size" - they are often even different from mdel to madel in a brand, or year to yrear in a model.
Try scrapyard? Otherwise dealer is best bet. There are kits to put "standard" speakers in, but they are not terribly satisfactpry. O have installed non-OEM speakers by making adapter plates - basically not worth the hassle.
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He who is Clare Snyder said on Mon, 04 Dec 2017 14:39:10 -0500:

Thanks for all the advice - I haven't touched speakers in decades!
I like the ideas of: a. Testing with a separate speaker (if I can find one) b. Testing by jumping the wires (shouldn't be too hard).
At this point, I'm trying to figure out what size fits.
Here is a picture of the topside of the speaker when we replaced the grill: <
http://wetakepic.com/images/2017/12/04/speaker5.jpg

Here is the bottom underside in the trunk: <
http://wetakepic.com/images/2017/12/04/speaker6.jpg

The kid is at college so she only comes home to the neighbor sporadically so I'm just lining up my ducks now.
Looking at the advice to call Crutchfield, they seem to be good and bad. They were very helpful. 1.844.298.3430 About $50 for two speakers.
The problem is *every* speaker they have for the 2005 Camry doesn't fit. https://www.crutchfield.com/g_400/All-Car-Speakers.html?tp 5&l=E&pg=1
The guy was helpful and said I had to make my own bracket. Huh? Why can't it just bolt in? (I'm glad I asked because I didn't expect that.)
Amazingly, they have 200 speakers they say that fit, of three sizes: 5-1/4, 6-1/2, and 6x9 (I didn't think to measure it unforutnately)
I don't have the car in hand, but apparently there are three types: a. With navigation (she doesn't have it) b. With JBL audio system (I'll have to ask - probably not) c. Without both of those (this is probably what they have)
I called the Toyota dealership and gave them the VIN where they told me their price was $298 for a single OEM Pioneer 6x9 speaker + about $30 tax, so, since I'll likely want to get a set, that would be $660 for the set.
I just can't pay that. Even for a nice neighbor's kid. It's just too much.
Since Camelback Toyota in Arizona usually has the best prices, I called them and they told me, from the VIN, that the radio is a "Fujitsu 10" and the speaker part number is 86160-AA450, they sell for half that price, at $300 for the set. https://partsfactory.camelbacktoyota.com/oem-parts/toyota-pkg-tray-speaker-86160aa450/
It's back to Crutchfield I go! :)
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Whereas you can get generic 6x9s from Parts Express for around $5 each, for a total of $20 the set, and they probably won't be any worse than the originals. --scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

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He who is Scott Dorsey said on 5 Dec 2017 14:14:38 -0500:

Price is never an indication of quality - it's just an indication of what other people are willing to pay - which - marketing knows - is highly influenced by marketing garbage.
So, a 6x9" 20W $5 Parts Express speaker might or might not be as good as a 6x9" 20W $300 speaker at Toyota which itself might or might not be as good as a 6x9" 20W $25 speaker at Crutchfields.
How are we to know? Sure, in the days of yore, we pored over those 3db power:frequency curves, from 7KHz to 20KHz on each speaker box, and where, folks like Jeff Liebermann would know, they always find a way to lie a little bit.
While I doubt the $300 per speaker at Toyota is a fair price, how can I tell, a priori, if the $5 speaker at Parts Express will be as good (or bad) as the $25 speaker at Crutchfields?
Is there any way for a consumer to make an intelligent speaker decision?
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On Wed, 6 Dec 2017 02:13:06 +0000 (UTC), harry newton

A good indicator of quality is magnet mass. If it has a tiny little piddler of a magnet it will not handle any power - particularly bass. Then lookat the cone material, and the surround. The spider is also important- The basket is less critical - but in a large powerfull speaker the basket will be MUCH solider than on a cheap-ass speaker. If youfind a speaker with a cast aluminum basket you know you are looking at a higher quality speaker - and if it is stamped steel, the heavier the better.
Poor suspension spiders and surrounds will let the voice-coil scuff on the magnet core - which makes a speaker rattle. A flexible basket can do the same. The surround compliance is different on a speaker designed for an accoustic suspension box than for a bass reflex, or an open baffle like in the average auto rear deck. Toyota actually used accoustic suspension on some of the "premium" sound systems years ago.
LOTS of things you can look at.
I have a pair of OEM Toyota speakers from the eighties sitting here, as well as a pair of speakers from a Zenith TV of about the same period - virtually the same size - and the Toyota speaker is significantly heavier. Thicker cone, thicker basket metal, and more rigid design - as well as a MUCH larger and stronger magnet, The Zenith also uses an "m"formed paper surround, while the Toyota uses a rubber surround. I've got a "tin ear" but even I can tell the difference between the two.
The drivers in my AudioResearch towers are MUCH heavier than my no-name set too - and I replaced the foam surrounds that had totally "disolved" from age with new high-quality synthetic rubber surrounds - on both the active and passive 14 inch cones.
In automotive speakers the basket rigidity is more important because of the "G" forces experienced when driving on rough roads. The cheap speaker might sound good when installed - but it may be pretty auful two years later.
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On Tuesday, December 5, 2017 at 6:33:53 PM UTC-10, Clare Snyder wrote:

My guess is that for an automobile speaker, it's important that it be const ructed from materials that can withstand the temperature changes and UV lig ht. You probably can't build car speakers out of the same materials as regu lar home speakers and they probably wouldn't sound that great in a home sys tem. My 2006 Sonata had an awesome factory sound system. Too bad my daughte r totaled it. That's the brakes.
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They're all dreadful. It doesn't matter which one you buy, it will be dreadful. So buy the cheapest one or the most convenient one and don't worry about it.

No, because it's basically not possible to get decent sound in a car anyway. And even if it were, it wouldn't be possible to do it with the typical full-range whizzer-cone speakers that we're talking about. So buy the cheapest ones you can get and it won't sound any worse than it did when the car was new. --scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

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On 12/06/2017 06:04 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:

I'm SO lucky that my hearing range is limited -- the 1988 POS Caddy speakers were just fine, as are the 2016 Corolla speakers.
Hubby used to be able to hear earthquakes a few seconds before we could feel them, though. Maybe he still can, we just haven't had one worth noticing for a while.
--
Cheers, Bev
"If God had wanted us to use the metric system,
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harry newton posted for all of us...

I like the idea of hooking a guitar amp up to a transistor radio speaker to see how far the magnet flies.
--
Tekkie

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He who is Oren said on Mon, 04 Dec 2017 12:33:32 -0800:

That's a good idea to wiggle wires (I haven't done speakers in years). The car is at college so it only comes home to do laundry.
When it comes home, the neighbor will call me and I'll be ready.
What I'll do is: a. Try to find a test speaker of about 20 watts b. Make a set of jumper wires to jump one side to the other c. Wiggle the wires to see if the speaker or the radio is bad
Incidentally, after ripping out the interior in the back, the new grills from the Toyota dealer went in easily after drilling out the old heat-melted posts. <
http://wetakepic.com/images/2017/12/04/speaker1.jpg
The dealer parts came with these round metal clips to fasten the posts: <
http://wetakepic.com/images/2017/12/04/speaker10.jpg
We originally thought the noise was because the grill was destroyed: <
http://wetakepic.com/images/2017/12/04/speaker3.jpg
I think the new speakers will have to come out through the top: <
http://wetakepic.com/images/2017/12/04/speaker6d52eb.jpg
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On 5/12/2017 7:56 AM, harry newton wrote:

It's the only way you're getting them out of there. The top trim panel should come out fairly easily and make access to the speaker retainers easy as well.
--

Xeno

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He who is Oren said on Mon, 04 Dec 2017 14:54:05 -0800:

The whole family is girls.
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On 05/12/17 14:48, harry newton wrote:

All the more reason to encourage them to learn to make and fix stuff. Geek girls rock!
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