Which of these 4 spots (2 on tire, 2 on wheel) are supposed to be lined up?

Neither did this one! :)

Sloppiness, incompetence, and fraud all around. I filed a formal complaint to Tire Rack. I had to stop them halfway through, after 2.5 hours of my car on the lift, and now I have four unbalanced (but new) tires, and a bare spare rim with no valve stem.

It was miserable, by any

  1. They committed fraud (by claiming a higher Tire Rack price)
  2. They pried off the BBS BMW hubcaps with a screwdriver
  3. They dropped 1/3 of the the lug bolts on the ground
  4. The did not bother to match mount the red to the valve stem
  5. They had to ask ME what the torque should be (when I told them to remove the wheels and re-torque them)
  6. They had to deflate and then re-inflate the tires (when I told them they didn't even look at the tire placard in the door jamb)
  7. They left the old wheel weights on the tire (until I told them to remove them)
  8. And, worst of all, I think they damaged two of my wheels

It got so bad, that I told them three times that I wanted my car back, and only after the third time, did they stop. Then they wanted to charge me the full (fraudulent) price, and I insisted they only charge me for the work they did.

In the end, they charged me $8 to mount the four tires with four new stems, no balance, and, they didn't put back the spare tire on the wheel rim nor put the Schrader valve back into the spare tire stem.

And, then they hand me a pretty envelope, with the receipt, where it says "Trust the Midas touch."

Pictures later ... as I only had a crummy cell phone ... and it's hard to get the photos off of it.

Reply to
blue bmw
Loading thread data ...

:)

Actually, I've found there are many types of bimmer owners.

There are the young kids, who don't even know the difference between a bimmer and a beemer who just want to tweak the looks (e.g., shadowline trim, hella angel eyes, staggered wheels, ultra low profile tires, CAI intake (even though you can't realistically improve upon it), etc.

Then, there are the old folks, who just want a nice safe well handling vehicle.

You have the sales people types, who want any "fancy" car to take their customers out in.

And, you have the enthusiasts, who put up with all kinds of quality issues because they appreciate the handling.

You have to admit, the power train and suspension (other than the known quality issues, e.g., leaking fluid filled thrust bearings and the like), are fantastic!

Reply to
blue bmw

No shop is trustworthy. I need the tires installed.

At the moment, that's what I have (and nothing more).

My spare is just a rim with an open Schrader valve. And, NONE of the four mounted tires are balanced. Plus, I suspect they damaged the rims (but I can not prove it, although I snapped photos and will send them to tire rack).

BTW, I have heard it all where people go to a shop and then complain that the shop installed tires and made the engine light go on or some other circumstantial bs - so - I told the manager at the shop at the time - and I told Tire Rack and I'm telling you - I have absolutely no proof how the two wheels got damaged - but - I can tell everyone that I checked visually all four wheels (to mark the match-mounting points) and I never knew they were damaged if they were at that time.

I also proved to everyone that the installer was sloppy, careless, and unprofessional, in quite a few ways (e.g., prying off the BBS twist-off hubcaps, putting the wrong torque, wrong air pressure, dropping the lug bolts, leaving wheel weights on, not cleaning the mud on the inside wheel, etc. - that I "suspect" (without proof) that they damaged the wheels in the process.

That's why I told them I was leaving, as to prevent further damage.

Reply to
blue bmw

I understand what you're saying.

What you're saying is that the marks on the wheel are for OE mounting. And, I tend to agree with you (although I'd like to hear that from BBS or BMW directly).

But, even so, they're STILL supposed to install the marked tires properly. And, my tires clearly had the red and yellow dots. And, just as clearly, you remove about 1/2 an ounce of aluminum when you drill the valve stem hole, and you put in about 1.2 ounces (the actual ounces are in the references I provided), so you're net heavy at that spot.

So, they _should_ have, at the very least, mounted the red dots next to the valve stems.

Out of the five tires/wheels touched, guess how many have the red dots next to the valve stem?

Reply to
blue bmw

Or not, as in this case.

I walked away, after 2-1/2 hours, with four new valve stems, and four new unbalanced wheels, and a spare rim sans tire in the trunk.

Sigh.

Reply to
blue bmw

I understand. The match-mounting issue (red dot to valve stem) may be a tempest in a teapot.

But what about the other unprofessional things that happened?

  1. Prying the twist-off BBS/BMW hubcaps with a screwdriver?
  2. Not removing all the wheel weights?
  3. Attempting to balance with a visibly thick coating of dried mud?
  4. Torquing all lug bolts to the wrong torque?
  5. Putting the wrong air pressure in the four tires? And, the worst of all ...
  6. Charging a fraudulent price saying on paper and in words, it's the special "Tire Rack" price when Tire Rack explicitly guarantees a different (lower) "Tire Rack" installation price?

Note: I have signed paperwork on the price issues that is incontrovertible, which shows the fraud, since they KNEW what they were doing, and STILL did it!

PS: Ask for documents and I'll show you. They're all on my phone, so, I will gladly post but first I have to document all this for tire rack because they told me to send it all to: installer support @ tirerack dot com

Reply to
blue bmw

Costco is good.

And, they throw in a lot of extras for free.

But the waits are tremendous.

And the tire selection minimal (hence cost is about double).

But, other than that, they're great, I agree. I get gas there all the time, for example.

Reply to
blue bmw

Hi David Martel, Yes, I read *every* article I cited. And, I agree *some* concluded it doesn't matter much. Yet, *others* didn't conclude that. And, more to the point, almost all said put the red next to the valve stem. Because, it's clear, the valve stem is clearly the heavy spot on the wheel (the math is in the Bridgestone articles).

Guess how many of my (currently unbalanced) tires ended up with the red dot anywhere near the valve stem?

Reply to
blue bmw

Everyone is forgetting about the valve stem.

Even on a used wheel, they removed roughly a half ounce of aluminum to drill the hole, and they added back more than an ounce of rubbery stuff to put the valve there.

So, it's *still* the heavy spot, no matter how old the wheel is.

Or am I missing something?

Reply to
blue bmw

That's what Tire Rack told me too!

Too bad these guys didn't do that, because I think they may have bent the rims (I have no proof other than their sloppiness) and they said they didn't - but - had they spun them prior - we'd all know the right answer.

Reply to
blue bmw

I wish I had the equipment!

Reply to
blue bmw

Actually, that was my mistake. I read "require" as "legally require"; but, you're right. Nowhere does it say it's a law.

Thanks for pointing that out.

Reply to
blue bmw

On most vehicles made recently the valve stem weight is already taken into account when the rim is made. With the OEM stem in place the wheel will be balanced. On old steel wheels with a weld joint where the rim was welded you had low spots. Most modern rims run much truer thanks to the machining that is done and current manufacturing methods. The only real problems I see with aluminum rims is from people hitting holes/curbs or road debris. Most also tell you they won't pay to have the rim trued or replaced.

The dot telling you the "high spot" on a tire is actually telling you where the inner belt plies overlap causing a thicker casing in that area.

Oh and you could have a perfectly balanced tire and still have vibration as a result of an unbalanced rotor or drum, axle runout or something like binding CV joints.

If you REALLY want a true, balanced tire hit the salt flats during speed trials. Watch the guys who work on those tires.

First they balance every rotating part of the drive train, Then they will true up and balance the rim, then install a tire and shave it so it is perfectly round, Then they balance it installed on the vehicle.

Price used to be about 100 bucks per tire installed.

Reply to
Steve W.

Blue,

No. You cited two articles and each of them concluded that matching the dots was pointless. You did not cite other articles that reached other conclusions. That's not to say that there aren't other articles which may reach other conclusions. Surprising that you did not cite them. Is there any "back-story"? I doubt that "street driving" or the daily commute needs this sort of balancing. What sort of driving are you doing and where?

Dave M.

Reply to
David L. Martel

...[snip]...

Use a cut-rate low-cost outfit, what do you expect?

I use a(*) local independent, locally-owned shop, don't worry about price much and get good workmanship that I don't ever worry about from guys I've known for years--some of the shop guys have been there over

10; there's nothing they've not seen in that time.

(*) Actually two; one has a Michelin distributor; one doesn't and one also does more ag tires so they're the choice there and for the large trucks.

Reply to
dpb

Hmmmmm.... I'm not sure if you are trying to help, and understand; or, if you're just trying to argue, for argument's sake, so, I'll assume the former and repeat what was already stated a few times already.

Look at the seven references that were provided. Let's take them one by one (excepting the two you just discussed which we agreed upon already).

Where in that article does it say matching the dots was pointless?

Where in that TSB does it say matching the dots was pointless?

Where in that pamphlet does it say matching the dots was pointless?

Where in that magazine article does it say match mounting is pointless? (It said it's complicated - but not pointless.)

I could go on but, I'm not sure why you disagree that the articles themselves present somewhat mutually exclusive conclusions - which is the whole reason the question was asked in the first place.

Reply to
blue bmw

That may be true, but not a single one of the match mounting references stated that.

Do you have a reference we can read that says the wheel is balanced all by itself, even with a valve stem attached into a drilled hole?

Reply to
blue bmw

One thing I expect is that they "say" they have a "Tire Rack" price yet they charge you for another. That's outright fraud.

I almost had to laugh, when I got back into the car, and on the floor was a paper mat saying they torque all the lugs to manufacturer specifications.

Remember, they torque *all* lug bolts and lug nuts to 100 foot pounds, no matter *what* car it is! I had to get out my Bentley to show *them* that it wasn't 100 foot pounds!

So, I don't expect fraud and deceit from *any* commercial establishment. Do you?

Reply to
blue bmw

I'm sure somewhere in the fine print it's pretty much covered...

...[snip]...

I'd not be surprised by much at such outfits as the big-discount tire places...but I don't trade at any owing to such.

Reply to
dpb

OMG, you went to Midas!!! Last time I was at a Midas I had a shouting match with the manager when he insisted he had to machine my brand new Discs in order to install the replacement "lifetime" pads that had worn out in about 20,000 miles. He refused to put the pads on and I refused to pay to have new rotors machined. My "free lifetime replacement" was going to cost about $60 and shave life off my brand new rotors. It's always good when the waiting room has a lot of customers in it when you are explaining to the manager what a bunch of crooks they are. He wanted me out and refunded the original cost of the pads. Last time I will EVER go to a Midas. That location went out of business a few years later.

Reply to
Ashton Crusher

MotorsForum website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.