blue bmw:
This article should explain the practice - with regards to OEM:
Succinctly, those dots refer to the balancing points for the tire/rim combo as shipped from the factory, new.
Maybe it's my fault for assuming that putting tires on is a commodity. Clearly, this Midas, wasn't worth the cost.
The good news is that Tire Rack removed them from the recommended installer program, but it was just this one shop so that's not all that much of a positive result.
Tire Rack said it would be six months at least before they're allowed back on.
Tire Rack confirmed, and removed this Midas from their recommended installer program.
They'll be out for six months, and then they need to petition to be put back on.
Small victory for the little old lady ...
Blue,
I'm not trying to argue with you. I read your OP and responded to it by reading the cited articles and raising the obvious point that the articles view the dots as not helpful.
Seven references? I went back to your OP and looked for this. You have 2 references to articles and 2 photos. Perhaps you have written a post with these seven references but I did not read it. I've only looked at your original post and a few replies.
Since you did not cite these articles I did not read them. I still haven't. I've no opinion on them.
Let's start over. You have an interest, for some reason, in "match-mounting" tires on a car. You have researched this and found that the "experts" disagree. Not surprising, experts often disagree. You wish advice. You come to a Home Repair newsgroup. Why? No offense but the posters here, while they may have opinions are probably not experts. I had never heard of match-marking until I read your post. In thinking about it, I don't get it. Sounds like a fad to me. Honestly I doubt you will get expert advice here. My opinion is not expert advice. You have observed that the local tire shop does not seem to use match-marking. This suggests to me that they are happy with their current practice for balancing and (a very important point) ttheir customers seem happy, too. I doubt that they would refuse to align the dots per your instructions while mounting and balancing your tires. So, we're back where we began. You need to know what dots to align. Here's a plan. Decide what tires you wish to buy, get the tire manufacturer's recommendation on match-mounting those tires. E-mail makes this stuff easy.
Dave M.
David L Martel wrote: "to a Home Repair newsgroup. Why? No offense but"
Last time I checked, the name of this group = "rec.AUTOS.tech", not alt.home.repair.
Fill me in if I'm missing your point.
snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@googlegroups.com:
Gotta love them Google Groupies.
Check the headers, the thread was crossposted to alt.home.repair.
--scott
Scott Dorsey wrote: "In article ,
Check the headers, the thread was crossposted to alt.home.repair.
--scott
Just a general note not to anyone in particular.
Most shops, be they a dedicated tire store, a dealership service area, or n eighborhood garage & gas up, ballpark everything when it comes to tires.
Most get the balancing *about* right, and I suspect most overtorque the lug nuts when putting the tires back on your ride.
NONE OF THEM even come close to the correct tire pressure, in my personal e xperience. Most just set the pressure to the maximum allowed as scribed on the sidewall itself, leaving it up to the consumer to locate the veh mfg s ticker containing the recommended cold pressures.
If they could be made to inflate to tires to the vehicle mfg pressure plus
3 or so lbs, then the cold pressure would be about where it should be the f ollowing morning.Of course, this would take training which most shops probably wouldn't have time or budget for.
Just a general note not to anyone in particular.
Most shops, be they a dedicated tire store, a dealership service area, or n eighborhood garage & gas up, ballpark everything when it comes to tires.
Most get the balancing *about* right, and I suspect most overtorque the lug nuts when putting the tires back on your ride.
NONE OF THEM even come close to the correct tire pressure, in my personal e xperience. Most just set the pressure to the maximum allowed as scribed on the sidewall itself, leaving it up to the consumer to locate the veh mfg s ticker containing the recommended cold pressures.
If they could be made to inflate to tires to the vehicle mfg pressure plus
3 or so lbs, then the cold pressure would be about where it should be the f ollowing morning.Of course, this would take training which most shops probably wouldn't have time or budget for.
Just a general note not to anyone in particular.
Most shops, be they a dedicated tire store, a dealership service area, or n eighborhood garage & gas up, ballpark everything when it comes to tires.
Most get the balancing *about* right, and I suspect most overtorque the lug nuts when putting the tires back on your ride.
NONE OF THEM even come close to the correct tire pressure, in my personal e xperience. Most just set the pressure to the maximum allowed as scribed on the sidewall itself, leaving it up to the consumer to locate the veh mfg s ticker containing the recommended cold pressures.
If they could be made to inflate to tires to the vehicle mfg pressure plus
3 or so lbs, then the cold pressure would be about where it should be the f ollowing morning.Of course, this would take training which most shops probably wouldn't have time or budget for.
or michelin. michelin are the most high tech tire manufacturer in the world and they don't dot-mark because it's a pointless exercise. particularly if, as you say, the wheel's actually been used.
if you've read the articles, then it should be clear. if it's not, then go to a professional that makes a living doing this stuff and pay them to do it right. if you don't know enough to know if they're doing it right or not - see first line above - then you don't have any right to complain. and certainly don't have a leg to stand on bleating about it here.
yeah, if you ignore the delusional myopia* of the people that buy them and all the reliability issues, they're great,
correct.
correct.
having read this thread, i don't think he really wants to know the facts, he just wants to bitch.
Hmmm, I never came across so much bitching on a stupid little car/tire issue. We better shut down this thread which is not much useful for any one. Went to Midas shop? No wonder.
Even the professionals don't know, as I asked Midas to put the dots in the proper place and they said they didn't even know what the dots meant (the manager said he had never ever even seen the dots before - he said it's the first tire he's ever seen that has them).
Also, the articles are (in some ways) mutually incompatible.
Therefore, it's not as simple as reading the articles; nor as simple as having a professional do it (as they care more about making money and churning customers than installing tires correctly).
If it was that simple, I would never have asked in the first place.
Actually, they *do* handle well.
They're just built by Germans who don't care one bit about quality.
All they care about is performance.
Clearly they were incompetent. I don't know about stupid. IMHO, all tire installers are incompetent, or lazy, or both.
The proof is merely in watching what they do, e.g.,
- wheel cover removal (if yours requires tools)
- torque of lug bolts (or lug nuts for those who have them)
- tire pressure (differential front and rear for those who have them)
- removal of previous weights
- cleaning of caked-on dirt on the inside of the rim
- etc.
I'd wager that 90% of the tires installed today are installed properly WITH RESPECT TO the combination of those things above all being done correctly.
IMHO, the only one who *thinks* their tires are installed properly is someone who doesn't know how they're supposed to be installed in the first place.
Funny. All I did was: a) Research how tires are *supposed* to be installed b) Ask the question in r.a.t and a.h.r (where people *are* knowledgeable) c) Select a Tire-Rack Recommended installer d) And, then, expect that recommended installer to install my tires properly
Note: They're no longer on the Tire Rack recommended installer list; but that's only because I proved to Tire Rack these issues.
The real problem is that millions of people must be getting cheated day in and day out, since they certainly didn't target me for the fraud and incompetence I merely witnessed.
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