Yaris, Scion xD, Honda Fit - no water temp gauge

Heh... I spent quite a number of years in the semiconductor equipment manufacturing business, specifically new product transitions. I can tell ya that there was NO industrial design! Form and Function, yes... But "Fit," no way Jose... Takes too much time and cuts into profit.

The result, maintenance/repairs undertaken by the customer were a nightmare. We stuffed 100 lbs into a 5 lb bag...

JT

"Grumpy AuContraire" wrote

It's true that, on average, females are more ignorant of things electrical and mechanical. But in general, I think the females are more willing to admit their ignorance. (Plus society is easier on a female ignorant of cars.) I think this means the females are more inclined to do something meaningful when the CEL comes on. Males (not you nor anyone here) OTOH can be overconfident--they'll second guess the computer, say, and will drive the car to ruin.

Elle "Don't drive like my brother." His car's low oil pressure light came on. He continued to drive the car until the engine seized and all he had left was a massive paperweight.

"One" is singular. "They" is plural.

One should reap what he sows.

"Should" is the operative word here.

But many DON'T--and it's certainly not a requirement for buying and licensing a car for driving on public roads.

In fact, the sales staff at a dealership would tell you that it only gets in the way of their goal--which is to get a signature on the bottom line.

Same with gauges.

The buying public has spoken: it wants to "keep it real".

Shoot, even Nate's vaunted German engineering has brought us the BMW engine without an oil dipstick, because the computer is taking care of that for you.

I'm guessing the computer IS doing a better job of watching a bunch of parameters than any driver could do.

Do we need the "check engine" light to light up green, yellow, and red to indicate the severity of the issue? Yes. But that's a tweak to the design, and is no reason to throw the entire design out.

Heh... I'll betcha that he also won't ask for dirctions when he's lost......

JT

(Just saw this post over a week late...)

I'm sorry, but which Toyota would that be that has an annoying upshift light? Seems that's more of an 80's piece of crap domestic brand kind of thing.

Toyota MDT in MO

I don't know about your memory getting bad, because I have yet to see one either. Of course I didn't drive in the 80's, but have seen many an 80-up between working at home and being in the dealer for so long. It would be difficult to substantiate short of a well kept owner's manual or an actual model still up and running. They've been long gone from salty snowy MO for some time now.

Toyota MDT in MO

********** It's good to know that my memory wasn't THAT bad! An upshift light is something that would have been pointed out in the New Car Features, and since I am not a fan of such lights, I thought I would have remembered it. The poster must have been thinking about his VW or something.

Welcome back!

God you're dumb.

I've already given you two instances, one by a COMPLETE NON-TECHNICAL driver (my wife) where a gauge saved an engine.

And in the other case where I (an engineer) was able to detect a failed filter by abnormal (but still technically in-spec) pressure behavior.

Debate over, proof presented, no question remaining.

IT always goes to hell when the Honda and Toyota fools invade a technical discussion.

No, "Steve" never said that. YOU said that engineers prefer oversimplification, and I (correctly) pointeed out that most engineers will err on the side of over instrumentation. My PERSONAL claim was that 4 basic drivetrain instruments are needed to keep a car reasonably safe: voltage or current, oil pressure, water temperature, and fuel level.

With such SIMPLE instrumentation needs, WHY THE BLOODY HELL is the motivation for further over-simplification? And even if further simplification makes some kind of economic sense to the manufacturer (presumbably because they save a few cents per vehicle and sell a few more vehicles when an engine roasts because the idiot light said "too late, you're screwed), why would ANYONE with enough interest in cars to read R.A.T. actually PREFER a dumbed-down car to one with basic instrumentation? It wouldn't keep me from buying a car if it only had an idiot light, but you guys act like you'd turn down a car with 3 gauges!

And by your argument, we should just eliminate the damn fuel gauge too. Put a warning light on and call it good.

Sheesh.

Of course he is dead wrong. About pretty much everything. These dipsticks that got on Daddy's computer come bombing into a newsgroup where (Lloyd notwithstanding...) we've all had pretty informative, intelligent, and rational conversations for years... and presume to tell us that we don't have a clue.

Weep, Earth. These are the leaders of your future.

Weird. Here it seems like you're supporting the argument I've been making all along.

and then in another post, you write:

maintain their cars, can suddenly see the gauges and know what to think about them.

got on Daddy's computer come bombing into a newsgroup where (Lloyd notwithstanding...) we've all had pretty informative, intelligent, and rational conversations for years... and presume to tell us that we don't have a clue.

I'm so confused.

nate

I would add voltage and (instead of "or") current and warning lights for low oil level, low coolant level, and low tire pressure (which is being implemented already).

But Nate says people are dumbasses who can't halfway maintain their cars.

Now he says those same dumbasses can suddenly understand and use gauges?

Nate's the dumbass.

And you expect that the car buying and car using public at large--who are not engineers, and who can barely find their way to the bathroom--would benefit from such a gauge.

Would buy such a gauge.

You're an ignorant asshole. That's all there is to it. You show it every time you open your mouth.

Maybe if they were expected to understand what those gauges mean, they'd start to understand the necessity of regular oil changes, coolant flushes, etc?

Why, because I insist on proper gauges in my own cars and won't let anyone near them that doesn't at least know enough to check for out of range or anomalous gauge readings? That seems like simple common sense to me.

nate

No--insisting that cars be built with such gauges is idiotic.

I'm not insisting that they be built with them. I'm just stating that they'd better be damn appealing - more so than most new cars - if the manufacturer expects me to buy them, and then go to the time and expense of mounting gauges in a brand new car.

nate

the labor of removal and fitting is the same on both sides of the equation - it therefore cancels out. there is no labor for re-work if simply replacing the motor, so the cost /saving/ matters.