CR auto reliability

Why would anybody believe CR? LOL

mike hunt

badgolferman wrote:

Toyota used to have bad reliability too. They turned it around nicely. Glad to see others doing the same. This will force the U.S. makers to do a better job. Glad that US cars are already better than the European ones!!

CR buys cars with their own money, no advertising, and they survey thousands of drivers. Also, CR is in line with what JDpower says. Unless you have a conspiracy theory about that too.

The number of new vehicles sold in the US for the past ten years has been between 14 and 16 million, every year. CR surveyed less than 800,000 owners, not all of whom are original owners, that subscribe to their magazine for that report. Well you do the math.

As too surveys, in general, I have purchased a least one new vehicle every year for at least the past twenty five years and I have never been surveyed by anybody except the vehicle manufacture.

As to buying their own vehicles, they buy ONE copy. Should others assume the one CR bought to be indicative, good or bad, of the one you happen to buy? I think not. CR says the mid size Hyundai Sanota was the best car sold in 2004, do yo believe that?

If one actually followed their reports over the years you would discover that CR has often rated one over an other when in reality they were the same car made on the same assembly line with a different brand on the hood. check back and see how often they have recommend vehicle that later turned out to be turkeys. What CR reports is simply an opinion, no better or worse than everybody else's opinion. ;)

mike hunt

"Dan J.S." wrote:

Now that Toyota is selling millions, rather than hundreds of thousands of vehicles, their quality ratings are slipping as well, according to J D Powers and CR if you believe that stuff.. Murphy's law I guess. ;)

mike hunt

"Dan J.S." wrote:

CR only surveys its subscriber base, that is why the number is so low.

I think it is important to note the the survey results are compiled from reader's own experiences, not from the CR testing department.

That one copy is not part of the survey that you distrust so much, that one copy is used to publish the Road Test that is the subjective analysis of test drivers and other staff members.

The only value of this testing is that the test drivers can say that the car fits well, the knobs work good and the instruments are easy to read. The test drivers seldom experience an A/C failure or serious transmission repairs. But their input that a 6'1" driver won't fit in the car unless the convertable roof is down is good input to people planning on buying the car, and are over 6'1". Their subjective analysis of road and wind noise is also valuable informatioin because they drive all of the cars that come out every year, and they will know that the Matrix is noisy or not as compared to the other offerings in the product class.

This is true, and a relevant complaint. They also test a new car and give it a thumbs-up, but the survey at the end of the year - this survey - has the owner's experience completely opposite of the test mule. I think this survey is much more useful as a guide than the test drive reports that come out throughout the year.

A friend of mine, after having 3 or 4 Corollas, bought a Subaru.

His comment is that he has had more trouble with the Subaru in less than 2 years than he did in 20 years of Corollas.

I still say, look at the blue book value in about 5 years old to see what has the highest value. These are usually the best car

That is what they would like you to believe, but there are opinions and then there are opinions. In any event that is all one gets from CR, an opinion. The thing that is wrong with their opinionated report is the VERY fact it reflects the opinion of their subscribers only. Real car guys subscribe to magazines like Motor Trend and Car and Driver, not CR, and in far greater numbers. Those that subscribe to CR are a whole different animal. They buy cars like they buy refrigerators or toasters. The real public opinion of any brand or model is in the real world sales figures. Buyers would not buy the same brands year after year if they did not believe they are not dependable. In the US the Camry is the number one selling mid sized car as well as the number one selling car, the F150 is the number one selling vehicle and as well as the number one selling truck, GM sells more cars than any other manufacture as well as more total cars and trucks than any other manufacture. Ford sells more of one brand of trucks, the "F series," and is number two in total sales of cars and trucks, Chrysler is number three and Toyota is number four in that real life opinion poll, period. The remaining 30% of sales is spread among all the other manufactures.

mike hunt

Jeff Strickland wrote:

Precisely the point of CR.

You have one opinion, the other million people also have an opinion. People that are thinking of buying a particular car have no opinion so they seek out what others might have to sayIf youir expeience sucked, but the other million was good, then the car is OK, and you got a bad one. If your experience is good, and the other million had a bad experience, then the car sucks but you happend to get a good one.

The thing that is wrong with their

But when a few buyers blaze a new trail for whatever reason and buy a new product that has not been tested or evaluated, then their experiences in this survey become an important baseline from which othe consumers can then go and evaluate for themselves. The Kiss of Death for any product is for existing customers to report in a survey like this that they had a bad experience.

Sales figures tell us that the product is priced right. That is all. If a product is priced right, but sucks, then the surveys like this expose the bad experiences. If the product is priced wrong - high - but the user experience is very good, then the sales figures might be low but the product is still a good one. In this instance the Sales figures don't matter.

In

But so what? The user experience is either good or bad, and the CR report attempts to compile these experiences for future buyers to weigh and compare.

If I was in the market for a F150 or equivelent from any of the other automakers, I would look at this survey for each model that was a functional equivelent, half ton, etc. Then I would compare the major areas to see how my contemporaries felt about the trucks they bought. Even IF I wanted the F150, but it had all black dots where the Dodge had circles, then I might go for the Ford. But when the truck left me stranded, then I would think, "you know, all of those Dodge owners really were right." Of course, I'd be thinking this while waiting for the tow truck, and if I had a coupon book with 71 more coupons in it, I'd be pretty pissed with myself. On the other hand, if I allowed the survey to sway my decision away from the Ford and over to the Dodge, and I was stuck waiting for the tow truck, then I'd have to wonder why so many people liked their Ram trucks.

Either way, I would know that the cup holders were sturdy and conviently located, and that along with the pricing differential would be enough to make me buy one over the other.

That's too bad. While I now own 2 new Toyotas (Camry and Corolla) and a

2003 CRV, I had a 1997 Subaru Impreza Outback (bought in 1998, that one was made in Japan), and it was the best car I've ever owned in the last 25 years that I've been driving. Kept it for 5 years and 85,000 trouble-free miles, but it was the fit and finish and solidness that I don't see in my Toyotas. My particular CRV was built in Japan and is a very well made vehicle. Feels very solid on the road.

I personally think the Suburu is a very underrated vehicle.

I'm not here to get into a Japan-made thing, as my previous '99 Corolla and 2000 Camry were troublefree and made in USA.

The point I meant to make, is that Subarus are rated very high in CR, and I believe that rating is just, even if it didn't work out for your friend. I'm sure Corolla's don't work out for everybody, and there's a lemon produced every once in a while as well.

From what we see in our business, of servicing thousands of vehicles annually of most every brand sold in the US, is that ALL manufactures are building good quality vehicle today. The ONLY difference, if the proper maintenance is performed, is style and price period. I always suggest one drive and price ALL of those that suits their needs and buy the ONE that best suits their budget and hope the ONE you buy is one of the good ones, not one of the few that are not up to the manufactures specs.. ;)

mike hunt

Jeff Strickland wrote:

That is a great suggestion.

And, I would go so far as to suggest that CR might actually devise a survey that people like you could complete that described the actual kinds of repairs that are needed, and the ease with which they could be completed. If you found that Brand X needed lots of transmission repairs as compared to other cars that came to your shop, that would be valuable information to know. If you noticed that Brand X and Model Z both needed transmission repairs, but Model Z was easy to fix while Brand X was hard, that too would be useful.

No matter how many times you repeat this stupidity, it won't be more true, troll. You're a proven idiot, troll, and liar.

Personally, I would not be a stupid troll, who has to change nyms all the time to evade kill-files. Only a true asshole imposes himself in this way, upon others who would rather not see his posts.

What conclusion, top poster?

Huh?

Unlike you my name never changes, no matter from which point I log on to the NGs. I always signs off as mike hunt. You on the other hand always post from the same point but have signed as Dizzy, Idiot, Stupid, Dumb Ass, etc. We still know it is you, by the goofy nonsense you post, however. ;)

mike hunt

dizzy wrote:

It's not easy to dismiss CR's survey as "opinion". CR's methodology is rather empirical: ask their subscribers to count the number of serious problems experienced in the past 12 months. This bypasses the "love is blind" effect:

Philip Salley, of Del Mar, Calif., told us that his Corvette was the most reliable car he'd owned in 40 years. Even so, he had replaced brake rotors, the muffler, an air-conditioner control, and a wheel bearing--all within the first 44,000 miles. Philip's problems got counted in CR's survey. His biased opinion did not. And CR's sample size is 810,000: the largest of its kind. That is the value of CR's survey, not the opinion of CR's writers nor CR's readers. Because, like it or not, CR's subscribers buy the same cars that "real men" buy.

Chris

bearing--all

The fact that they have a sample size of 810,000 does not mean that they get it right. Remember, that sample covers a myriad of product categories. In the case of any single product in a particular category, the sample is much much smaller. It is also not a random sample and represents people who buy with the kinds of priorities that CR tends to have. In my field, electronics, they seem to get reliability ratings wrong as much as they get them right.

CR is a good starting point and only part of the information that goes into a smart buying decision. You just have to understand that their sample may be biased and their evaluations may not reflect ones own priorities.

Leonard

Leonard

What did you think of the Subaru interior? I had a 95 Legacy. Fit and finish was fine, suspension and body integrity were terrific. But the interior plastic and fabric were junk.