Fuel Filter fun

When to change the fuel filter isn't mentioned at all in the

2006 Camry's "Scheduled Maintenance Guide." All that's mentioned is to inspect "fuel lines and connections, fuel tank band and fuel tank vapor vent system hoses" at 30,000 miles or 3 years. But no mention of the fuel filter is made at all in Toyota's maintenace guide for the Camry.

That seems odd. My trusty book "Auto Upkeep" says to change the fuel filter every 2 years; 24,000 miles; or as recommended by the manufacturer. But the manufacturer doesn't make a recommendation in the guide for the fuel filter. Hmmm...

"Auto Upkeep" also says 2 years or 24,000 miles for the CCV filter and the PCV valve.

As for the engine air filter, Toyota's guide says to replace it at 30,000 miles or 3 years. That seems like a very long interval. "Auto Upkeep" says 12,000 miles, and I've read on the net that lotsa folks change the air filter much more frequently, like every 10,000 miles or one year. In all fairness to the guide, it does mention to check the engine's air filter at every oil change *if* "special operating conditions" are involved. Still

3 years seems way to long to wait to replace the air filter.
Reply to
Built_Well
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I suspect that Toyota knows more about your car than "Auto Upkeep." The fuel filter should be god for the life of the engine unless you get a load of contaminated fuel. Your OEM air filter should be good for 30k miles.

Reply to
Ray O

========snipped

Many mfr's use lifetime fuel filters that do not, yes do not require changing under average operting circumstances (read: most everybody out there).

Be glad, and don't be ripped off by the unscrupulous who might tell you it needs to be done.

Reply to
Bob H

Built_Well wrote in news:46f9d869$0 $79262$ snipped-for-privacy@auth.newsreader.octanews.com:

Your fuel filter is in the tank. Replacing it requires removing the gas tank from the vehicle.

The filter is lifetime. It really is.

What you can do to help is to keep your gas tank as full as possible all the time, helping to minimize water buildup in the tank. These days, dirt is not the fuel system's problem, water is.

That 24K is for the old-fashioned inline filters used by carbureted cars with mechanical fuel pumps that developed a few pounds of pressure. It is outdated for our modern 40psi EFI fuel systems.

You should go by the maintenance schedule in your car's specific Owner's Manual, not some generic, outdated, one-size-fits-all cheapo aftermarket document.

What does Auto Upkeep say about chassis greasing and brake adjustment?

It's accurate. But is that the "normal" spec or the "severe" spec?

Auto Upkeep is outdated once again. The 12K spec is for big V8s with air cleaners of a very different design. The older designs were more prone to sucking dirt up with the air, contaminating the filter that much faster.

------

Having said all the above, more frequent maintenance definitely does no harm and may actually do some good, especially more frequent oil changes. You just need to be aware that some of that extra maintenance is being done more to make /you/ feel good, not the car.

Reply to
Tegger

The filter for that car is mounted on the bottom of the fuel pump assembly inside the gas tank. If you really want to change it B_W, you do not have to remove the fuel tank from the car. You can remove the fuel pump access cover, remove the eight bolts holding the pump, filter, and vent tube, lift the assembly out and change it. With all that said, I would think that it's probably good for the life of the car IMHO.

Reply to
user

========

Gee, it seems like "Auto Upkeep" really needs some updating. But its copyright date is 2004, and its first printing was 2003--not old at all. I bought it from Amazon because it was rated highly at 4.5 stars out of 5. But something is definitely off with this book.

I think I might see part of the problem. The author is Michael E. Gray and the Editor-in-Chief is his /wife/ Linda E. M. Gray [chuckle]. She is also the illustrator and project manager. The publisher is Rolling Hills Publishing. I paid about $20 for this flawed book a couple years ago [grimace].

I'm not saying husband-wife teams don't make good teams, but this book seems to have some problems.

Reply to
Built_Well

Built_Well wrote in news:46fa78b4$0$79249$ snipped-for-privacy@auth.newsreader.octanews.com:

The publication itself might be copyrighted, but how old is the info in that publication? It could be from 1942 for all you know.

Reply to
Tegger

"Ph@Boy" wrote in news:h9mdnUcvPYsZxmfbnZ2dnUVZ snipped-for-privacy@trueband.net:

I stand corrected.

Reply to
Tegger

Yeah Tegger, I think the fuel filter get changed out just like your Acura, from the top access panel ;-) But the Honda one is HUGE compared to the weeny Toyota puts in. And I heard US gas is not as clean as European gas.

Also, I change my in-line filter with Wix fuel filter because the catalytic converter tends to click a lot louder after 24000 miles and is quiet afterwards. So I do believe "Auto Upkeep" has a point for those who are capable of keeping their cars better than many of the grease monkeys at the dealers.

Toyota had to reduce the oil change interval in 2004 from 7500 down to

5000 miles for normal service because of engine sludge. That tells you how much they know ;-) ;-) ;-) In contrast, the same oil can go up to 12,000 miles in a GM or Honda with oil sensors.

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innews:h9mdnUcvPYsZxmfbnZ2dnUVZ snipped-for-privacy@trueband.net:

Reply to
johngdole

I see some people saying the fuel filter is in the tank. My Corolla, my Supra and my Scion all have filters in the tank, but they also have an external filter as well.

When I want to find out for sure, I go to my friendly neighborhood Toy dealer and have them look up the part, and then show me the location...

Reply to
Hachiroku

snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com:

If there is any "clean" issue, it has NOTHING to do with the sort of solid particulates (dirt) that mechanical filters are meant to intercept.

"Clean" in terms of fuel means low sulfur, not solid particulates. Sulfur is not trapped by fuel filters.

"Click"? You mean clicks from heat shields cooling off? Believe me, fuel filter brand has exactly zero to do with cat temperature. Maybe even less than zero.

"Auto Upkeep" is very flawed. Hubby and wife need to really revisit what they're doing here. Ditch the 1942 data, for a start.

Yeah yeah, smiley several times...supposed to soften the blow... But that still doesn't help to cover up faulty logic.

Any idea how many 1MZ-FE's actually had sludge out of all that were sold? Care to guess?

Reply to
Tegger

Not only do I mean lower sulfur content in European gas, I do mean particulate matters in the fuel.

Read again, I didn't say the brand solved the problem, I mean a NEW FILTER after 24K miles solved the problem. I attribute that to the engine running non-optimally with a restricted filter. So I don't believe Toytoa's engine control system is up to it in these cases. Again, the noise is much less with a new fuel filter.

"Auto Upkeep" has been around for a long time with Built_Well got the

2004 revision. Non-specific maybe, but I wouldn't blanket comment it is as flawed. I agree with the 24K mile fuel filter change for one.

If engine sludge is a trivial issue, then Toyota wouldn't reduce the

7500 mile interval down to 5000 miles. I do believe Toyota knows more about their engines' problems than you do.

Reply to
johngdole

They started with the weeny in the engine compartment, showed one in the tank for the Camry, and then got rid of the engine compartment one for the latest generation.

If the in-tank one is a large one, than it should be OK. But if it's like the weeny then a more frequent interval should help.

Reply to
johngdole

Different companies have different rules. For whatever reason Ford says

30,000 files for the fuel filter - and the Ford Fuel Filters are huge compared to many others. I suspect Ford specifies a very restrictive filter in an effort to filter out any possible contaminant. This seems to be the exception rather than the rule. My SO's old Chrysler van had a tiny filter and there was not replacement interval specified. I finally replaced it at 100k miles - nothing changed It was never repalced again. My Sisters Honda also has a tiny filter and Honda does not recommend a replacement interval. I replaced it at 25K miles and never again. The car now has over 130,000 miles. It would be unusual for a clogged fuel filter to damage anything on a gasoline engine. The symptom will be limited power (and possible a check engine light). Most gas is filtered at the pump, so the chances that you will have a clogged fuel filter are small. How if you have a diesel......

"As recommended by the manufacturer" for your Toyota is never barring a problem. A clogged filter will make itself apparent.

The PCV valve is a component covered by the emmisions warranty. Repalce it when required. For one of my Fords, the dealer would replace it for free at

60K miles since the emmisions warranty requires that it last 80k miles.

Actually chaning your air filter too often is a bad thing. Air filters actually do a better job as some of the pores are clogged. You might find the following reference interesting:

"The SAE paper by Marty Barris (SAE Technical Paper No. 952557 titled: 'Total FiltrationTM: The Influence of Filter Selection on Engine Wear, Emissions and Performance' ) offers two important conclusions: a.. "The level of ambient dust concentration can easily overwhelm other factors in terms of influence on engine wear. It is therefore important to match the air intake filtration system design to the anticipated ambient exposure. And here's an interesting one-: b.. "Too frequent air filter change intervals can double engine wear rate, especially if changed within the first 30% of the air filter's life. "The practice of removing an air filter element to blow it clean is plain stupid. This malpractice, which can lead to engine wear rates being trebled, still occurs on the false economy basis of trying to extend the service life of the air filter element. A well meaning but badly trained technician thinks he is being thorough in servicing the air filter, or replacing it prior to reaching the optimum life of the element. This happens in workshops without supervisors even being aware of it."

Also see:

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Regards,

Ed White

Reply to
Ed White

I checked at Rock Auto, and they don't list an external filter for a 2006 Camry (either engine) but they do list the in tank filter (strainer). This suggest to me that there is not an external filter. Rock Auto does show an external filter for the Supra but not a Scion - maybe it is too new. The filter for my SO's old van actaully had three lines - two from the tank and one to the engine. It was tiny but I always suspected that it included some sort of back flush circuit to limit contamination.

Ed

Reply to
Ed White

snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@w3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com:

There are four filters in the fuel system.

1) the pump filter 2) the sock filter in your tank 3) the inline filter (the one people replace) 4) The basket filter in the injector itself.

Each one is progressively finer than the last.

Unless there's rust in the gas tank (or you let yourself run out of gas many times), filter blockage is a decided rarity these days.

Yes, but you specifically mentioned that you installed a "Wix" filter, implying that the brand had something to do with it.

And you have absolutely no way of knowing if that was the case without having had a fuel pressure test done.

A restricted filter manifests as starvation at high engine speed and heavy load, when injector duration is at its longest. It has no effect on the cat in any way at all.

Modern fuel systems pump WAY more gas than the system needs, with the excess simply routed back to the tank.

Your contention that the fuel filter has something to do with catalytic converter noise is a little bizarre, frankly. The two have nothing whatever to do with each other.

It's like saying you replaced your windshield wipers and now your tires run smoother.

You may "agree" with the change, but agreement doesn't make it correct.

We can "agree" that objects unsupported do not fall towards the earth's center, but we can't make it be true.

They sure do. They also know more about their fuel filters than either of us, or even "Auto Keepup", for that matter.

Reply to
Tegger

Interesting SAE paper, Ed.

Terry Dyson of DysonAnalysis.com has written the following, which does not necessarily contradict the conclusions of the SAE paper:

"I have been preaching this for 30+ years and base it on UOA testing. Air filter IS THE MAIN ingredient to better performance and MPG for most engines,spark or diesel. Those that take the change interval for air filter to factory recommended durations will MOST of the time find the leaks in the system and suck dust and or needlessly increase specific fuel consumption.

"Had a major racing engine builder argue with me about semantics on this point when our common racing engine customer was running high levels of fuel in the oil and he poopooed my observations because ECU and injection systems correct for restricted air flow. ....Poppycock...... "

-- So both Dyson's and the SAE paper's conclusions may be valid. Dyson is talking about engine performance and mileage whereas the SAE research is concerned with engine wear.

Reply to
Built_Well

I'm guessing the OEM air filter in the '06 Camry is a paper filter, or possibly cotton gauze? I'll have to unscrew the filter housing tomorrow and find out.

The eBook author consulted by AutoEducation.com doesn't like paper at all. He prefers oiled foam filters. Do any of you have favorite oiled foam brands?

Here's what he has to say about foam being better than paper:

PART 4: HOW DOES OIL CONTAMINATION OCCUR?

There is also the issue of contamination. Oil will be contaminated in three major ways. One will be through debris that comes in through the air intake. Once it makes it through the air filter, it ends up in your oil. Once in your oil, it starts damaging your engine.

The second source of contamination will be metal shavings from the inside of your engine. The lesser the quality of the oil, the higher percentage of these shavings because there will be more metal to metal contact inside the engine.

The third source of contamination will be from combustion by- products. Combustion by-products will generally raise the acidity of your oil, which causes corrosion in your engine. In addition, they will be left behind as the engine oil burns off and will collect on the inside of your engine as deposits. To maintain the viability of your oil as well as protection of the engine, the contaminants have to be removed/neutralized.

One of the best ways to help with this process is to keep most of the contaminants from ever getting inside the engine in the first place. That's where your air filter comes in. Conventional paper air filters are pretty worthless. How many times have you removed your air filter for replacement only to find that you could write your name in the dust that collected around the air intake? That's just the stuff that was left behind. Imagine the amount that actually ended up inside the engine.

Part of the problem is that traditional paper filters do not fit all that snugly in the air intake compartment. They've improved, but they're still not great. More importantly, though, they let way too much debris shoot right through the filter element itself. As a side-note, they do not provide for very good air flow either.

You see, as a compromise to allow enough air flow for your engine to run "properly", surface type air filtration media have to allow certain sized particles to flow through. If they made the filtration media any more tightly woven, not enough air would pass through quickly enough to keep your vehicle running.

As a result, most paper filters won't catch anything smaller than about 20 to 40 microns with any real efficiency. In most cases, the more expensive the filter, the lower the micron level of filtration - and the lower the better, of course.

20 to 40 microns is pretty small. A human hair is about 100 microns in diameter. The problem is that 60% of engine wear is caused by particles between 5 and 20 microns (most likely because there is so much more of it). If you don't keep that stuff out, it'll eat away at your engine.

Consider an alternative air filtration device which is more like a sponge (actually, it's foam). Because foam is "squishy" it can be made slightly larger than the air intake compartment so that when installed it fits very snug with no room for air to by-pass the filtration unit.

In addition, it has millions of "tiny" channels through which air can flow, but these channels are not straight channels. They twist and turn through the filtration media. Air can pass through easily because these "tiny" channels are actually much larger than the channels through the paper filter we just discussed. This is possible because the paper filter only has one chance to get the dirt. This foam media has multiple opportunities to catch the dirt.

You see, as the air travels through these winding channels, it can turn this way and that with ease. However, the dirt particles that the air is carrying travel in a straight line until they hit something. Obviously, at every turn, the debris within the air hits a "wall". You say, "Well, that's great, but why doesn't that dirt just bounce off the wall and keep right on going?" Good point. I tell you what, why don't we put a tacky substance in the foam so that when debris hits these "walls" it's stuck there like a fly to one of those sticky tapes. You say, "Yeah, that would work!"

Not only will it work, it will work far better than the paper air filter discussed above. Because of the depth-type nature of the foam filter AND the added tack oil, it will remove most particles larger than

5 to 10 microns. Thus, most of the harmful stuff is stopped before it ever reaches the inside of the engine.

Now, we've established that such a filtration media would seal up the intake compartment, should have better air flow, and we've established that it has more opportunities to catch the dirt, so probably less dirt makes it into the engine. The next question should be, will it hold as much dirt as the paper filter?

Well, of course it will. It's much thicker than a paper filter, and, because of the nature of the foam media, has a virtually limitless surface area over which to collect dirt. In fact, the more dirt it collects, the better the filtration (with minimal reduction in air flow). It's also much more durable than paper, so it NEVER needs to be replaced. Just wash it once a year, re- oil it and put it back in the vehicle.

Reply to
Built_Well

Reply to
EdV

Ok, How do I check fuel filter on my 07 Camry? Is at simple as looking at the engine air filter and cabin air filter? Honestly our local gas station isn't that new and looks like it had been standing there for

100 years now. Its old but still a lot of people buy from them. I dont feel any change on my cars performance but all this fuel filter talk makes me think twice about buying from them again. His price is 2 cents cheaper than another station 500 feet away.
Reply to
EdV

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