Oil capacity of '02 Corolla at dipstick marks?

I said "can" instead of "will" on purpose for exactly the reason you gave. Many small engines like lawnmower engines use splash lubrication, and the scoop is designed to scoop and not beat the oil and deposit it on the surfaces that need lubrication. In a larger engine, the multiple crankshaft counterweights that are not profiled to cut through the oil could just pound the oil in an over-filled crankcase and agitate the oil. Modern oil additives reduce foaming to reduce this possibility, but I doubt if the possibility is completely eliminated.

The engine holds about a cup less than 5 quarts when yo do an oil change and include the filter. The distance between the Full Line and the Add One Quart Line is one quart. You should simply add 5 quarts with an oil change, and not be concerned with the extra cup or so. When the oil level drops to the bottom line, add a quart.

If you are prone to downshifting at high RPMs, you will suck oil out of the engine past the rings and/or valve guides, and you will see this as consumption at a rate of about a quart per 1,000 miles. If you drive your car this way, you will have very poor mileage and a rate of oil consumption that makes you wonder where the oil is going. Since the oil is going into the exhaust stream iun very small quantities at any given instance, then it will easily be burned off and you will not see it as smoke. You _could_ notice an oily film on the back of your car, maybe.

No profit?

I'm sure you're right on most of that, but Toyota's bread is still buttered by car sales and parts sales to the dealers and I'm SURE Toyoda makes a profit on those things, so the interest is there.

I thought Midas was claiming those things, but they sure screwed me over royally a few times.

OK.

None.

Read what I wrote - you might learn something.

I know of NO automakers that recommend additives because they know that most are of dubious value. It is ridiculous to think that all automakers are conspiring to have their products wear out sooner so they can sell parts. The only people who recommend additives are the additive makers, the people who are sponsored or who sell additives, and you, someone who knows so little about cars that you don't know how to read the oil dipstick.

Do you question and contradict your doctor when the doc says to lose weight, lower your blood pressure, eat healthier, and exercise because you could just use a dietary supplement that solves all of those problems? The doc just wants you to be sick so the doc can make more money and those dietary supplements will do a better job? The people who make those dieatary supplements must be more honest than your doc, who even with all that education and experience doesn't have your best interests in mind when the doc gives advice?

The midas.com web site says that they are BBB members but they do not mention ASE certification. I have never heard of anyone who considered Midas to be a place where you are going to get competent and honest work done. People who go there go because they think it is cheap.

I'd like to add a little bit to this. While profits from service activities are not shared with the mothership, the dealers do buy parts from the mothership that themselves are sold at a mark-up, so the mothership does realize a benefit from service activities through the movement of parts -- both through service and counter sales. I don't think the mothership actually makes very much money this way, and I suspect that the parts profits are used mainly to keep the system running. I don't know this to be

The dealership may keep 100% of the $82.00 per hour shop rate, or whatever it is, but the mothership gets a small piece of the action through the consumption of parts by the service department.

One will drive theirself to the loony bin if they constantly go around thinking that the service people are intentiionally screwing the car up to make another dollar tomorrow fixing the stuff they broke yesterday. You have to go into the relationship thinking that the goal is to fix the car, not break it worse.

Midas is well-meaning, but incompetent. Personally, I always select the Mom & Pop repair centers before I'd use a national franchise store. I'd use a dealership before a national franchise too, but I'd use Mom & Pop before the dealership ONLY because I'd use me first, and save as much money as I could. My own work usually works out pretty good for me, Mom & Pop get the repairs I can't do myself. If you can't do anything for yourself, I'd suggest the dealership ahead of Mom & Pop.

I fix it myself until I can't, then let Mom & Pop take a shot at fixing it. Of course, I select a Mom & Pop that specialize in my car. If you can't fix it yourself, then I'd say that you should just go to the dealership. If you have friends that recommend the Mom & Pop that they use, then let them do your repairs, but be sure they specialize in your make of car. They will have the diagnostic equipment needed. Bob's Ford Repair won't do very good service on your Toyota, but Joe's Family Toyota Center should do a pretty good job because they should realize that diagnostic equipment needed for Toyota will make them successful, where Bob's Ford Service will do a lot of "by guess and by golly," work.

As for additives, I always think of them as snake oil. You may be able to buy them at the dealership parts department, but this does not mean that the mothership endorses them.

You can fill the crankcase with leak-stop, but if the leak is caused by poorly sealing rings or valve guides, I don't think the leaks will stop. Leak-stop works on seals between the inside and the outside -- if it works at all. There is a caveat. In theory you can pour in lots of STP that is so damn thick that it can't seep out of any hole smaller than 1mm, but there would be so much product that it won't pump through the motor very well, and other even more serious issues will eventually arise. I'd never suggest one pour in that much STP, but I've seen a car that was glued together from the inside with STP to plug the holes. The engine exploded when the STP was drained and replaced with motor oil. I never used STP in any of my own vehicles.

They may have expanded to general mechanic work, but in the past Midas was mainly a muffler shop. :/ Maybe brakes also, but like you say, they are not really known for general engine and drive train diagnosis. I'm also anti additive. The engines need oil for lubrication. Not thick gooey additives that may not do a good job of lubrication. But there could also be other issues with using a thick stop leak additive. From what I've read so far, I take it that the car may not have had the most regular oil changes. 120k miles is kind of soon to be having ring or other oil burning issues. And no one has determined if it's actually leaking, or burning the oil. So adding stop leak at this point in the game is not really a good decision.

In a worst case scenario, the lack of timely oil changes may be leading to the dreaded evil oil gelling. With the 2002, I believe they were still using the old version head design. "I'm thinking the head design change was in 2003 or 2004.." So lets say the engine does have a gelling problem. Stop leak would be the very last thing you would want to add to the oil in that case. It would just make the problem worse. She needs someone to diagnose exactly where the oil is going. And I don't think Midas is really the place for something like that. She needs a good engine mechanic, or the dealer to look at it.

One reason I do regular oil changes using the Syntec blend is to try to avoid the problems she is starting to see. I just changed the oil in mine the other day. I've used nothing but Syntec blend in that car since I've had it. It seems to stay pretty clean using that oil, and my engine runs exactly the same now, as when I bought it. And burns basically no oil at all. In fact, I checked the level before I dumped the oil the other day, and it was still about at the full mark. I use zero oil additives. No need as everything it would need as an additive is already in the oil. Not to mention that oil is general cheaper than additives. :/ BTW, they have recently renamed the Syntec blend.. Probably to avoid confusion with pure Syntec non blended. It's now called GTX syn blend. But it's supposed to be the same as what they used to call Syntec blend.

I'm not sure, but:

I'd find it extremely hard to believe that Toyota is a non-profit when it comes to parts sales, it makes no sense.

Well even if Toyota makes 10% on all "genuine" parts sold, that's a good profit.

No, and that's not what I said. I just said that it's not in the INTEREST of someone selling oil or car service, to recommend anything that might reduce the need for that service that they make their living from.

Just like if I owned a store that sells ice cream, it wouldnt be in my interest to sell or recommend machines where people could make their own ice cream at home.

After my experiences with them, I'm not so sure about that first part.

The old saying; "Fool me once and it's your fault. Fool me twice and it's my fault"?

My 93 Corolla was stalling out after an hour or so of driving in warm weather. So they go and replace the fuel pump, which was expensive because it's got to be accessed beneath the rear seat, if I recall. But it didn't fix the problem.

So they go and tell me that it's the expansion valve in the A/C that could be causing it, and they went in and took the gas out to supposedly diagnose it! The A/C was running great, cold as hell before that. After that it developed a slow leak that eventually led to compressor failure LONG after I quit going to Midas, so this year I had to pay $900 for a new compressor, and to convert from R12 to newer gas, which doesnt cool very well anymore!

But that didn't fix it either. So they finally found out that it was a marginal hall sensor on the distributor and had to replace that, and THAT finally fixed the problem.

But did they offer to refund my money for all the T&E ( trial and error ) work that they did, that didn't fix it? NOOOOOOOO!

Similar reason why I'll never go back to Just Brakes again. We had gradually increasing rumbling in the front, when braking ( especially when the brakes were heated up and in hot weather ), and they told me we had a bent axle, which didn't make sense because it's not a stunt car or anything, we just drive it and not like loonies. But that was $1600 and lo and behold, didn't fix the problem. So I took it to my current mechanic ( the one who recommended the Lucas ) and he told me it just needed the front disks machined, which fixed the problem for a LOT less! So never again on Just Brakes.

The overall impression that I get is that these people "see a woman coming" and know that most women dont know about these things, so we get shafted with unnecessary repairs for a LOT of money!

Like one local Goodyear place where I went for an oil change and they told me I had a bad head gasket that "was leaking pretty good". But I had no signs of anything in the driveway and the tailpipe, so I took it to someone else for a second opinion and they said it was absolutely not true. So never again will I go to Goodyear, not EVEN for an oil change! And like Midas, they seem to draw people in with cheap oil changes and then tell you that your car needs expensive repairs.

Well this is what I have now, a guy who has a neighborhood shop about half a mile from me.

I can do minor stuff, like changing my own plugs and air filters. In fact my mechanic was even surprised that I changed the plugs this summer, in the

Yeah, this guy has years of Toy experience.

Well Ray has me so nervous now, about the Lucas Stop Leak that I just put in, that I'm about ready to go back and get the next oil change 1000 miles early, just not to risk it being in there for 1000 miles.

And that's something I didn't think about before. The bottle of Lucas says that you may have to add it with each oil change. So what would be the point then?

We all like to think that we can save some money by using things like this. We cant afford an engine rebuild.

I'm not sure how it could be burning oil with 120k miles, unless the first owner just never did oil changes or something.

I havent been to Midas in over a year now. I'm placing them in the same mental compartment as Sears now.

You went to a muffler place for a repair not related to the exhaust system. DOH!

A great place for tires! Not good for other things.

Yes, that's why I don't go to tire places for oil changes and oil change places for anything.

I used to go to one of those guys. However, I stopped going to him when he was jacking up my engine to change a belt, and it seemed to take way too long.

I wonder about the ability of neighborhood shops to keep up with all the tools and electronics needed to take care of more advanced cars.

Just because a product is relatively cheap (compared to a repair) and has cool advertising doesn't mean it will work. Think of all the money spend on alternative medical care - alternative essentially means unproven. (If it were proven, it wouldn't be considered alternative). These products are in the same relm as alterative medicine - unproven. And they are used for the same reason - desperation.

Jeff

I never recommended them, though you're right about the latter part. I just said the mechanic told me to try the Lucas.

Well yeah. :) But with doctors, I also realize they're not seeing things holistically. For example they get taken to lunch by the drug reps and wont recommend anything that might replace a Rx drug. I've actually found 2 supplements in the last year, that replaced dangerous Rx drugs for me.

Not that motive, but the doc is worshipping at their own religion, of saying that only Rx drugs can help people, then you take their Rx drugs and a year or two later the lawyers are doing class action lawsuits because that drug harms people. Someone once accurately described it as donating your body to medical science before you're done with it.

Again, it's not that, but the doctors are too narrowly focused on being pill pushers and dont often look at other things. Example: I know someone who was on fluoxetine ( generic prozac ) for depression for a few years, but it started wearing off. They often just keep moving the patient to stronger SSRI's when that happens, but this person did some reading and found that SSRI's can be dangerous drugs, screwing up the nerves and dopamine chemicals in the brain.

So they withdrew from the fluoxetine and then tried 5-HTP instead, then discovered fortuitously that 5-HTP and cottage cheese in the evening, fixed their depression problems. So they use those now, which are FAR more benign on the body than SSRI's.

So no, I dont think doctors are gods and the last word on medicine.

In fact being an Objectivist, I'm with the people who say, "QUESTION AUTHORITY".

Last I checked, weight loss, a healthy diet and exercise all prevent type II diabetes, or, if one already has it, complications from type II diabetes. And, maintaining normal blood pressure helps prevent heart failure, kidney failure and stroke. Doing those things that docs recommend (weight loss, diet, exercise and keep a normal blood pressure) all prevent the use of Rx drugs.

And remember, natural does not mean safe.

Ever hear of the placebo effect?

Neither you nor the person can tell for sure whether cottage cheese and

While I agree with question authority, you have to have a good knowledge base to understand the authority's position.

BTW, did the person who took 5-HTP question the qualifications of the person who recommended 5-HTP? Does the 5-HTP meet the same purity requirements as the fluoxetine that it is replacing?

Remember, the doctor prescribing the Rx drugs is not profiting directly from the sale of the drug (although there are definitely conflicts of interest). The person selling the 5-HTP has a strong direct interest in the sale of the drug (yes, 5-HTP is a drug) because he works for the store and may also get a commission for selling the drug.

The same profit motive that you see for the docs works for the alternative medicine people, too, often with more incentives for the alternative medicine people than the docs.

Jeff

They're profit centers for the dealers, not for the mothership. I thought we were discussing profits that went back to the mothership. Toyota Motors makes its money on car sales, the dealers make additional revenue from servicing and this revenue is not shared with Toyota Motors, beyond (as I said earlier) the parts they buy from Toyota Motors are profit for Toyota Motors.

If you also sold ice cream ingredients, it would make loads of sense to sell ice cream machines. Starbucks sells coffee makers for $300, and they sell coffee beans. Using your argument, they're cutting into their own profits by doing this. If the person with a $300 coffee maker stops by and picks up a couple of $12.00 bags of coffee beans that costs Starbucks about $2.00 to produce, you can be sure they're making money.

If you could package the key ingredients for Ice Cream, and sell the machine for $300, you'd not lose any money on the people making ice cream at home.

? LOL

LOL

Ok, maybe not such a good analogy...

But something else came to mind that will get me to my mechanic tomorrow for a premature oil change. I heard that something like 97% of engine wear is when the car starts for the first time each day.

When I put this Lucas Stop Leak in, I opened the bottle and inverted it into the oil hole for a few minutes, thinking it would drain into there. Nope. Too thick. So I had to keep squeezing the bottle as it glopped out, until the whole bottle was drained into there.

Couple that with the 97% figure and...uh oh!

Now admittedly you're only supposed to use it for 20% of the oil in there, which was why I was asking about the dipstick high/low marks, so I could make sure it was that 20% approximately, BUT we were at the start of a tankful at the time too, and usually get 30mpg and up, and it now looks like I've driven about 45 miles on 2 gallons, NOT good.

So tomorrow, the Lucas goes bye-bye.

And thanks to you guys, for the honest and competent advice.

I readily admit that I dont know much about car stuff. I know how the engine basically works, with the cycles etc., but not much from a mechanic's view like many of you have. But at least I'm willing to honestly admit my mistakes and TRY to learn. How many people do that nowdays?

Ok, well hopefully Toyota makes a decent profit on the parts then, but thinking about this, the company's reputation is for reliable decently built cars, so if they hurt that, they profit less.

I just cant figure why they do a few kooky things like making oil filters almost impossible to get to, for those of us who might like to change our own oil. Happy customers = more car sales, no?

If it were up to me, I'd build cars where the oil filter was right on top, or something.

A subject with which I'm familiar too, and I wouldnt buy their coffee machines.

I opened my own yahoo groups coffee group a few years ago and learned how to make THE best coffee I've ever tasted.

No longer bother with those yet either, as they have no roast date on the packaging.

If you guys are interested in making GREAT coffee at home, so much other stuff gets discussed here, just ask.

True. Another "profit center".

Not sure on that one, outside of my area of expertise. Alls I know is that Cold Stone and Ben & Jerry's and as far as I know, Baskin Robbins dont sell them, so I assume it's because they dont think it would be profitable.

Toyota Motors, clearly, has a vested interest in quality service, but they provide training on the products they sell so that quality service can be performed.

If you want a car where the oil filter is on top, buy a BMW.