Pick-up Truck Search Finally Over

To be honest, I don't remember what our Avalon's VIN begins with, but it will be the same for all 1997 Avalons.

I recall that you were willing to travel some distances to purchase a Camry assembled in Japan. From the manufacturer's point of view, the true measure of a vehicle's quality and reliability during the first 3 years is their warranty expense per new vehicle sold (PNVS) or retailed (PNVR) and Toyota tracks this information closely so they know what is coming out of its plants. I doubt if you will find this information available publicly, but based on the information I've seen, I personally would not spend any time trying to figure out where a particular Toyota was made before buying it.

Reply to
Ray O
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Here's another 3-dollar fish, courtesy of LexisNexis.com:

The following is a "glance at the 'American'-made content of some models and place of origin, according to carmakers' window stickers" (Associated Press, Sept. 13, 2005):

(The list goes from highest content to lowest content)

Chevrolet Malibu Maxx - 90 percent U.S.-Canadian content, built in Kansas City, Kan.

Toyota Sienna - 90 percent U.S.-Canadian content, built in Princeton, Ind.

Hummer H3 - 85 percent U.S.-Canadian content, built in Shreveport, La.

Chrysler Sebring - 80 percent U.S.-Canadian content, built in Sterling Heights, Mich.

Toyota Camry - 80 percent U.S.-Canadian content, built in Georgetown, Ky.

Chevrolet Cobalt - 75 percent U.S.-Canadian content, built in Lordstown, Ohio

Honda Ridgeline - 75 percent U.S.-Canadian content, built in Alliston, Ontario, Canada

Jeep Grand Cherokee - 75 percent U.S.-Canadian content, built in Detroit

Chrysler 300 - 72 percent U.S.-Canadian content, built in Brampton, Ontario, Canada

Nissan Altima - 65 percent U.S.-Canadian content, built in Smyrna, Tenn.

Chevrolet Avalanche - 61 percent U.S.-Canadian content, built in Silao, Mexico

Chrysler PT Cruiser - 55 percent U.S.-Canadian content, built in Toluca, Mexico

Mitsubishi Eclipse - 47 percent U.S.-Canadian content, built in Normal, Ill.

Jaguar Vanden Plas LWB - 20 percent U.S.-Canadian content, built in Coventry, England

Mazda MPV - 15 percent U.S.-Canadian content, built in Hiroshima, Japan

Volkswagen Jetta - 8 percent U.S.-Canadian content, built in Puebla, Mexico

Chevrolet Aveo - 6 percent U.S.-Canadian content, built in Korea

Mercedes-Benz E350 - 0 percent U.S.-Canadian content, built in Sindelfingen, Germany

Nissan 350Z - 0 percent U.S.-Canadian content, built in Tochigi, Japan

Toyota RAV4 - 0 percent U.S.-Canadian content, built in Aichi, Japan

LOAD-DATE: September 14, 2005 Copyright © 2006 LexisNexis, a division of Reed Elsevier Inc. All rights reserved. Your use of this service is governed by Terms & Conditions

Reply to
Built_Well

From the preceding post, one sees that the Toyota Sienna minivan has 90 percent U.S.-Canadian content and is built in Indiana.

Most Toyota dealerships don't show the VINs of their cars online. They show their inventories online but usually not the VINs. However there are a few Toyota dealerships that also show the VINs, like Longo Toyota in L.A. and Ackerman Toyota in Saint Louis (AckermanToyota.com).

If you search Ackerman's site for Siennas, you'll see VINs whose 11th character shows "S" (meaning the plant is the one in Princeton, Indiana) but the first character of the VIN is a 5, not a 1 !!

So with the Sienna we have 90 percent North American content but the VIN doesn't start with a 1. It starts with a 5.

It's a good thing somebody didn't take me up on my one-hundred dollar bet ;-)

By the way, at Ackerman you have to click on each Sienna's listing to see the VIN.

If there's any lingering doubt, just call up a Toyota dealership, tell the salesperson you want to buy a Sienna or Camry. Ask the salesperson to go out on the lot, and tell you what their Camry VINs begin with (it will be a 4 or a J) and ask the salesperson to read back to you over the phone what percentage of American parts is shown on the Origin Sticker (it will be 80 percent).

Reply to
Built_Well

Not sure, but I'm getting preliminary information that zero "0" in the 11th VIN position may be the plant code for Tahara, 8 may be Hino, 3 could be Tsutsumi ("could be"--it's possible 6 is Tsutsumi). Very preliminary info. Don't quote me on any of this.

Posting here so I'll never lose this hard-sought, admittedly tentative data.

Sharx, you may have lucked out if your Camry was assembled in Tahara--the best plant in the world! What year is it? I wish my Camry were put together there.

keywords: V.I.N., codes, eleventh character.

Reply to
Built_Well

My 2005 Toyota Sienna minivan has 90% of american parts in it (so says my sticker). Thats more than the suburban, at 50%.

Also, Toyota just gave all their employees a $10,000 bonus - each.

Reply to
Dan J.S.

Then why does the VIN not start with a '1' as required by federal law ;)

mike hunt

Reply to
Mike Hunter

I'm no expert on VIN decoding but accordinng to this federal government site

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it looks like within certain parameters, it is up to the manufacturers to code their VINS. According to Toyota's faq, here is information on decoding Toyota's VIN:

The Vehicle Identification Number, commonly referred to as the VIN, is a sequence of 17 letters and numbers that is uniquely assigned for each vehicle. The VIN can usually be found on the driver's side dashboard near or under the bottom portion of the windshield. It can also be found on the certification label found on the driver's doorjamb on most vehicles. The VIN provides some information about the vehicle. It is typically composed of four sections. The first three digits are called the World Manufacturer Identifier (WMI). Toyota VINs starting with "1", "4", or "5" represent vehicles assembled in the United States and VINs beginning with "2" indicate vehicles assembled in Canada. Vehicles with VINs that start with "J" were produced in Japan. The next five digits (4 through 8) are the Vehicle Description Section (VDS). These digits provide information on the vehicle model, body style, and engine type. The ninth digit is a check digit used internally. The 10th digit indicates the model year; letters (except "O" and "Z") were used for vehicles up to the 2000 model year while numbers are used for 2001 and newer vehicles. For example, "X" means the 1999 model year, "Y" is the 2000 model year and "1" represents the 2001 model year. The 11th digit is the plant code. Finally, digits 12 - 17 are the unique serial number.

AFAIK, the government does not require, and Toyota does not use a unique number to represent parts content in its VIN.

Reply to
Ray O

Oops, I posted those last two messages to the wrong thread. They should have appeared in the "California Death Penalty Problem" thread.

Reply to
Built_Well

Umm, slight error on my part. Technically Pappa Bush wasn't a Texan. He was born in Milton, Massachussetts in 1924, but later "embarked on a career in the oil industry of West Texas."

And he "served two terms as a Representative to Congress from Texas." How about that. A transplant from Dukakis-Kerry land to Texas.

Reply to
Built_Well

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Reply to
Steve W.

BTW Check out this corvette forum thread (I own a 2006 C6 corvette and I have no problems) but see that only 58% of people polled have no problems, others do. Shows that quality issues still exist at GM.

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Reply to
Dan J.S.

Thanks for that great link, Steve. I really enjoyed reading the detailed information. Unfortunately, we still don't have an answer as to why three separate numbers in the first VIN position can refer to the United States: 1, 4, and 5.

We know that 2 refers to Canada, and 3 means Mexico, but why should the U.S.A. have 3 numbers devoted to it? Mike says the 3 different numbers make distinctions as to the percentage of North American auto parts found in a vehicle--with 1 being the highest percentage and 5 the lowest. The only problem with that is we've seen Camry VINs starting with a 4 that have Origin Stickers showing 80 percent North American parts, and we've seen Sienna VINs beginning with a 5 that show 90 percent American parts.

Mike, you still might be right, but you're not providing us with any sources to back up your claim, and sources to explain the Sienna and Camry examples.

I've now spent 21 dollars at LexisNexis.com, downloading 7 different documents, and I still haven't found a definitive answer as to the Mystical Meanings of "1," "4," and "5"...

Can you believe it: each of the documents I've read says that 1, 4, and 5 mean United States, but none describes the differences between

1, 4, and 5! [chuckle] How exasperating.

Whoever comes up with this answer deserves a free vacation to Las Vegas, paid for by the regulars of this Toyota newsgroup!

Reply to
Built_Well

You are worrying way too much about on this.

If you really MUST know... the numbers for Toyotas correspond to the assembly plants.

1= NUMMI 2 = Cambridge, Ontario 4 = Georgetown, KY 5 = Princeton, IN
Reply to
Ray O

Ray, I appreciate reading all your posts concerning Toyota mechanical problems. They are very informative, and I thank you for them. You know your stuff. But I have to challenge you here.

Technically, it's the ELEVENTH vin position that refers to the plant. Recall my much earlier posting in this thread (I've included a brief excerpt of it at the end of this message).

The first vin position involves the country of origin.

Now, I too, like you, originally thought that 1, 4, and 5 in the FIRST vin position *OF TOYOTA* vehicles (as opposed to NISAN or DODGE) also referred to the *TOYOTA* plant of final assembly--perhaps just a redundant reference to the plant in addition to the ELEVENTH vin position (the ELEVENTH *officially* refers to the plant). But Mike immediately challenged me, saying 1, 4, and 5 in the FIRST vin position of Toyotas is NOT a redundant reference to the plant. He says it refers to the percentage of North American auto parts found in the vehicle.

Considering that I have read independent sources confirming that the ELEVENTH vin position officially refers to the plant, having the FIRST vin position also refer to the plant is rather redundant. But Ray you might be right. However, both of you cannot be right--both you and Mike.

Here's the excerpt from my earlier post:

"....the 11th VIN position *officially* designates the plant: "U" means Georgetown, KY. "Z"=Fremont, CA. "S"=Princeton, IN. "C"=Canada. Japan plants are represented by a number in that 11th VIN position ("3" for example may be the Tsutsumi plant--but of course a "3" in the *first* VIN position means Mexico)."

Reply to
Built_Well

I am assuming that you have read the government standards regarding VIN formatting as well as the explanation in the faq section of Toyota's web site. Yes, the 11th position must refer to the assembly plant. The standards also allow the manufacturer some leeway regarding the first 3 positions.

If you read the federal guidelines on the VIN format (available for free without having to pay Lexis Nexis), you will not find any reference to domestic content, or at least I did not see any. I believe that Mike's formulas may apply to Ford and/or GM but does not apply to all automakers in the world. Think about this: if a Camry is made in Japan for sale in Japan or Europe or anyplace in the world outside of North America, what difference does North American content make to a buyer in Thailand?

The first three character positions must be consistent for a manufacturer but I don't think every manufacturer must follow the exact same format for the first 3 characters, other than the second one, which identifies the manufacturer.

Mike worked for Ford, I worked for Toyota. If you want obscure information about Fords, I would take Mike's knowledge over mine any day. If you want obscure information about Toyota ...

Reply to
Ray O

Ray, thanks for your comments; I appreciate them. I always appreciate your insightful answers.

But how do you expla>

Reply to
Built_Well

Bonehenge, would you mind telling us what the eleventh character of your Tacoma's VIN is? Thanks a million, if you can.

Reply to
Built_Well

##### are serial digits

5TEUU42N65Z0(zero)#####

It's a 2005 Tacoma with major options 4WD / V6 / 6 speed manual / TRD / Access Cab / 50 state emissions, 02/05 NUMMI built (sticker and door plate say so).

Let 'er rip!

Reply to
Bonehenge

Eleventh character is a "Z" for NUMMI. Thanks a million Bonehenge. Looks like all the '06 Tacomas at LongoToyota.com also start with a 5 and show "Z" as the plant.

All this probably points to the Auto Parts percentage explanation, but we still can't answer with certainty why the VINs of the Georgetown '06 Camrys start with a "4" when they have 80 percent North American parts content. Plus the "Associated Press" AND Dan J.S. both mentioned their Siennas have 90 percent American parts.

Reply to
Built_Well

I can't explain why Bonehenge's NUMMI-made Tacoma's VIN starts with a 5. As I posted earlier, my theory is down the drain!

Reply to
Ray O

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