Synthetic for old Celica?

Toyota may not "require" synthetic oil, but as I previously said (and as Ray admitted) this is partly because Toyota knows Honda (and other) salespeople will use that against them when comparing cost of ownership. Also, if everyone used synthetic oil, they would probably sell fewer new cars.

Given these facts, the fact that Ray uses synthetic oil in all 3 of his personal cars is relevant IMO. Anyone can read the owners manual.

I meant the part about the Honda salespeople facetiously. Going back and re-reading what I wrote, it didn't look that way. Toyota's engineers are not worried about what oil change advantage they may or may not have over Honda, and Toyota is also not worried about selling fewer cars if everyone uses synthetic oil.

Here is the problem Ray.

On the one hand you say that you explain the official Toyota recommendations on oil changes, and on the other hand you admitted (previously in this same thread) that Toyota's recommendation is based partly on the fact that if they recommended synthetic oil, Toyota would be at a disadvantage with regard to total cost of ownership when compared to its competitors (most notably Honda). It is not an accident that Toyota and Honda have nearly identical warranties, and nearly identical service intervals. These issues are decide by marketing departments as much as they are decided by the engineers.

The Toyota recommendations on oil (especially with regard to synthetic vs. conventional) is not necessarily in the best interests of the customer.

Therefore it is relevant that you use synthetic oil in all 3 of your personal vehicles while at the same time explaining that Toyota does not require it.

So now that you see the duplicity, you are retracting your statement about the Honda salespeople? I don't buy that for a second. Once the toothpaste is out of the tube, you are not going to get it back in that easily.

Toyota engineers may have input into the maintenance schedules of vehicles, but it is Toyota Marketing that makes the final decision. That is why the same Toyota sold in other countries have much longer oil change intervals. It depends partly on the competition. The cost of warranty repairs is a Marketing Expense according to Generally Accepted Accounting Principles.

And I thought only lefties were that duplicitous. Shame on you.

I mentioned the Honda oil change comment in another post and retract what I meant to be a tongue in cheek comment.

The notion that Toyota follows Honda's lead is mostly an American one. Believe it or not, Toyota does not follow Honda's lead; it is the other way around If you look at the worldwide vehicle sales, capitalization, and profit among Japanese automakers, Toyota has close 60% of the market while Honda and the other Japanese automakers split the remaining 40%. Honda and the other Japanese automakers are looking for an advantage over Toyota's products and business methods, not the other way around.

1. I didn't say that Toyota followed Toyotas lead. I said they are aware of the competition, including when the specify maintenance intervals.
2. Your request for retraction has been denied. It is part of the record, and I don't believe for one second that you didn't mean it.

If you consider that duplicitous, mea culpa. If you want to find fault in everything I write, have at it!

I never said I find fault with everything you write. Don't start feeling sorry for yourself.

This has gotta win an award for the most tedious thread that I have seen in a while.

Ray has the patience of a saint. Tomes

Don't worry, I'm not feeling sorry, my patience is just wearing a little thin ;-)

I've gained quite a bit of patience in 25 years as a scout leader, and taking them climbing and rappelling in the past 6 years takes even more. It is not always easy to convince a Scout or adult that it is safe to step backwards off of a 50 foot drop-off. Of course, the only time someone freezes up high where I can't leave them unattended or halfway up a climb when I'm holding their belay rope is when the 3 or 4 cups of coffee I drank needs to go somewhere.

"Ray O" ...

I teach science to 6th graders in a city so I have an idea of what you speak. I also am reminded of rappelling about 40 years ago in BS, thanks for making me remember that. Tomes (Eagle Scout with 49 merit badges)

IMO, teaching is one of the most under-appreciated and under-respected professions in the U.S. I find it interesting that the term "sensei" in Japan refers to teachers, martial arts instructors, clergy men, doctors, and lawyers. My hat is off to you for taking care and educating the future leaders of our society.

I like to tell the youth and adults that I take climbing and rappelling that if they can overcome their fear and uncertainty of being able to accomplish something they have never done, they know that they can overcome almost any obstacle that school or life poses, and the teamwork aspects of having to trust someone else with their lives will help them learn who they can trust to work with them in school, work, and in their lives.

An Eagle Scout with 49 merit badges is very impressive! To the non-Scouters who are reading this, a youth must progress through the ranks of Scout, Tenderfoot, Second Class, First Class, Star, and Life to even become eligible to become an Eagle Scout. Along the way, the Scout must learn basic leadership, life, and outdoor skills, contribute hours of service to his community including a major project, and earn 21 merit badges, of which

12 are mandatory. Only about 4% of the youth who enter Cub Scouts in first grade achieve the rank of Eagle, and even fewer earn merit badges beyond what they need to become an Eagle Scout.

I volunteer as a leader because I believe that the Scouting program complements the education that the youth receive in schools, providing leadership training and experience while learning useful skills that schools don't cover or cover in enough detail. I also love camping and the outdoors, and being a leader gives me an excuse and enjoy the great outdoors. Since my boys have moved beyond Boy Scouts, I only get to camp out a dozen nights a year instead of the 30+ that I used to with them.

Up here in Edmonton, even 5-30 ordinary oil turns gets appreciably thicker (pour point) at minus 40, lengthening the time it takes to get oil circulated through the engine when the vehicles is started. ANY delay in this circulation being completed leads to increased wear.Conversely, desert type temperatures cause dino oil to break down sooner. I'd recommend synthetic oil wherever temperature extremes are experienced.

In English, the word "doctor" also comes from the word teacher in Latin.

I learned something new today!

That is because a doctor is not a just a physician, but more commonly a PhD, which is Doctor of Philosophy. The PhD degree is the education level of most college professors. At one time, all knowledge was a branch of Philosophy, hence the reason why most disciplines award a PhD degree.

But there are also physicians who get a MD (doctor of medicine) degree, lawyers get a JD ( doctor of jurisprudence), SOD (doctor of synthetic oil), etc.

Hehehehe. Ok Mark, you had me going there for a while. Good one!

Jac