Synthetic Oil & Toyota Warranty??

Allowing the rings to settle into the piston's groves isn't the same as a break-in. A break-in period was used to wear down the high spots on bearing races and cylinder walls. It used to be that the machining done to build a new engine wasn't of very high quality and the parts needed time to wear into it's mating surface.

Do these 'experts' build engines or just write articles in magazines?

I can't speak about any problems GM may have had with the Corvette as I don't know anything about any problems they may have had. But the truth is that, under normal conditions, there is no difference between synthetic oil and conventional oil when comparing their lubrication characteristics. There is a BIG difference between them under abnormal conditions of temperature and high stress (extended full throttle, full load).

Unlike you, I have never used Mobil 1 or any other synthetic oil in any of my cars. I do not trade cars until the cost of operation becomes too high. I really don't care if I'm driving the latest and greatest or not, I just want dependable transportation that doesn't cost too much. That said, I keep all of my cars for at least 10 years and most of them have run over 100,000 miles of mainly city/town driving with few high speed extended trips.

With one exception, the condition of the engine is never the reason why I trade cars. Most of them started needing too much maintenance to either the body or the running gear. I can't see spending $2500.00 to rebuild a transmission in a car that is only worth $3000.00. The one exception was a 1982 Dodge with a 2.5 L engine that broke it's cam and beat the head to bits.

I'm glad you are getting good service out of your cars. But don't think it's because you use synthetic oil. You would get the same service out of your cars if you used name brand conventional oils.

Jack

I have the same problem with my 1996 Camry. I've been using 5W-30 non-synthetic for 12 years, and the engine is so smooth that I can't find any justification to buy a new car.

Similarly, I've been drinking fresh ground arabica coffee for 15 years, after switching from pre-ground robusta and my body is still operating at peak efficiency. It must be the arabica beans.

Just make sure that it's an API certified synthetic. A few synthetics are unable to pass API certification, notably many of the Amsoil products. It's not that there's anything wrong with their lubrication properties, it's just that the high ZDDP level can affect the emissions system.

The advantage is solely in colder climates, and for high performance engines. But for normal engines in temperate climates, there's no advantage, according to all the experts.

Few people are still clueless enough to do 3000 mile oil changes (unless they own a very old vehicle).

Most experts are who?

You mentioned the Corvette problems a couple of times now. I read what I could on Corevette ring sealing problems and other than some wild internet speculation, no one climed the use of synthetic oil was the prime cause. The most reasonable explaination seemed to be the use of low tension rings that were subject to flutter under frequent hard use (the sort of use one would expect from someone buying a Corvette). GM addressed the problem by changing the rings and pistons.

Ed

Finally, a breadth of fresh air. Given your statement above, I don't think you are qualified to discuss the subject of synthetic oil.

Your body may be OK, but your brain is fried.

All the experts?

Even Ray 0. uses synthetic oil in the 3 cars he owns, even though manufacturer does not specify it.

Few people? I think that a lot of knowledgeable car people do it, which may not be a bad idea if they use conventional oil. Obviously, that is excessive if you use a full synthetic.

What you need to do is to learn about causal relationships. You've attributed your use of synthetic oil to your engine running smoothly after ten years, when in fact there is no relationship between the two. Your engine would be equally smooth running on oil with a petroleum base stock.

Yes they changed the rings and pistons after they had break-in problem with synthetics using their old machining methods. The problem coincided with the switch to factory fill synthetic.

I am not trying to overstate this break-in thing before switching to synthetic. But I find it ironic that most of the people who claim switching to synthetic immediately is not a problem don't even use synthetic and don't recommend it.

Does it do any harm to wait until the first oil change to switch to synthetic? No, unless you live where the temps are below zero and you park outdoors.

Could it do some good, even in 1 out of 100 cases? Maybe.

I can tell you without any reservation or doubt, that as soon as I made the change to Mobil 1 in 1998 (after the first oil change) I could feel that the engine revved more freely. Although I cannot prove that my 10 year old car is still in excellent condition is because of synthetic oil, but I have never had an engine run so smoothly after even 5 years. I frequently rent late model cars for business reasons, and very few of them are as smooth running as mine.

Now, since you don't even use synthetic oil, how come you are telling me I am wrong?

If you really want to get into serious discussion of cause and effect, then read some of the 18th century British philosopher David Hume who proved there is no known understood cause and effect relationship for anything. The tobacco industry has used this same philosophy to claim that there is no understood relationship between tobacco smoking and lung cancer (they are correct, because although there is an statistical relationship, scientists do not know how tobacco actually causes lung cancer).

In fact, when the USDA evaluates drugs for the treatment of disease, they rely solely on statistical efficacy data, and not on any cause and effect relationship that may, or may not, be understood.

How many miles on the car when you switched to synthetic.

Because if he waits too much longer he will need to come up with around $40,000 the way Toyotas prices are going up. LOL

No, that is not the reason. As I said, I have rented may late model cars on business trips and none of them has a better power train than my 1998 V6 Camry XLE. I do have about $2,000 in aftermarket stereo upgrades in my 98, which does have some impact on my keeping it, especially since it is very difficult to replace the crappy stock stereos with aftermarket gear on the newer cars (they don't use DIN cutouts and the audio is integrated into the dash).

Nevertheless, I will probably purchase a 2009 model. Some lucky person is going to get my 98 (I have a couple of friends who want to buy it from me).

Since you, Mr Hunt, are a known advocate of only buying American cars, I don't blame you for buying a new one every couple of years. I had an American car I would do the same.

Switching to synthetic after even moderate engine wear with conventional oil will often cause the problems you encountered. It is not good to switch too soon or too late.

Of course, this is contrary to what some people have said in that conventional oil and synthetic oil have the same viscosity (if you use the same viscosity rating), so according to them your experience is a figment of your imagination. In my experience, what happened to you is as would be expected.