Synthetic Oil & Toyota Warranty??

More likely the rings in Scott's escort were stuck and the additive package in the Mobil 1 freed them up resulting in the increase in oil usage. The same thing could have happened if he'd have simply changed the oil brand from Castrol. I've switched many high mileage engines to Mobil 1 and never had a problem.

Can you still buy Japanese Camrys in the U.S.? When we got our 1996, the west coast had mainly Japanese-made models, and the East Coast had mainly U.S.-built models. They were slightly different, as sometimes when I buy parts they need to know where it was built.

It's rather ironic that more and more "foreign" cars are made in the U.S., while more and more "American" cars are not built in the U.S..

It's amazing that in 13 years both Toyota's MSRP and street prices have gone up by so little, even though the standard equipment level is now much higher.

I remember what we paid for the 1996 Camry, as well as the MSRP.

The MSRP has gone up by $1366 (with the same options we purchased at the time), but ABS is now standard equipment, RKE is now standard equipment, TPMS is standard equipment, engine immobilizer is standard equipment, there are a lot more airbags, and it's a larger vehicle with a more powerful engine. Part of the increase is due to the higher destination charge, the actual base MSRP price increase was only $697.

The street price has gone up by slightly over $1000, based on equivalent rebate programs at the time we purchased (and this is not based on haggling, it's based on an "All in Stock at This Price" advertised price.

If you factor in what the 2009 model standard equipment cost as options on the 1996 model, the prices have actually come down.

Certainly it is possible to switch a higher mileage vehicle to synthetic without a problem, but the odds of a problem are increased if you wait that long.

I've never murdered anyone either Mark. Does that mean that I'm not qualified to pass judgment on murder?

I've never rob a bank either. Can I state that robbing banks is bad?

You are sold on synthetic oils. That's fine and I have no problems with you buying them and using them. Just don't try to tell me that my life experiences with cars and conventional oils are invalid because they don't back up your prejudices. If it wasn't for you and folks like you, the manufactures of synthetic oils would have a very limited market, mostly tropical and arctic climates.

Oh, by the way. I do use synthetic oil in my snow blower.

Jack

I don't blame the American workers for the difference between US cars and Japanese cars. There is very little (if any) difference in quality between a Japanese made Camry and one built in the US.

The problem seems to be with the American car company designers and engineers, not the people who assemble them. I really don't blame the engineers either, since they are placed under very tight budget constraints.

American cars (for the most part) have gotten themselves into a quandary in that they typically need to sell for a few thousand dollars less than a Honda and Toyota, and the customer base of American cars tends to be people with less income than buyers of cars from Japanese manufacturers. So the quality of the American cars seems to be always a little less, which is a difficult cycle to break since they are told to make them to sell less than Japanese cars. Coupled with the very high pension and health care costs they have to pay retired union workers, and the American companies are not able to effectively compete head-on with Japanese cars in most cases.

That is in fact the problem that the synthetic motor oil manufacturers originally faced. Their products were used in cold climates, in non-automotive applications (snow-mobiles, snow blowers, ORVs, etc.) and in some high performance engines, but not in normal, mass market passenger cars. They created marketing campaigns to convince naive car owners that oil with a synthetic base stock was better for their vehicles than oil with a petroleum base stock. The problem they faced was that there is absolutely no data that shows any benefit, either in fuel economy or engine protection. Fortunately, lack of data is often not an issue in convincing someone to spend more money for no benefit.

Yes, I noticed that. I think I paid more than 25K for my 1998 Camry V6 XLE (no moon roof, no leather). When you consider inflation, the price has come down quite a bit.

As I recall, the top of the line BA's that I got were on-sale and they cost $750 installed.

Back in 1998 Blaupunkt was not bad. They were typically used as OEM for BMW, VW and other German cars. The main reason I went with Blaupunkt was that the faceplate was a flat black without any fancy displays, and it looks OEM to most people (makes it less prone to theft).

Can you describe what the oil temperature difference at the valve stems and piston ring lands would be in an engine running in tropical versus moderate versus arctic climates would be?

Can you describe what the differences in oil shear at the lifter to camshaft interface and rocker arm tip to valve stem tip interface would be in an engine running in tropical versus moderate versus arctic climates would be?

Why?

You are confused about the difference between passing judgment on an ethical matter versus knowing the practical benefits experienced when using a particular product (in this case synthetic oil). It is shocking to me that you don't know the difference between these two things.

Naive? We are talking about spending $10 - $15 more per oil change, twice a year on average. You make it sound like we are getting fleeced by scam artists.

If you had been working a legitimate job for the same number of hours you have posted the nonsense criticizing synthetic oil on this newsgroup (even a low paying job like mowing lawns), you would have earned enough money to pay for 10 synthetic oil changes per year.

In a 1996 issue, Consumer Reports said it found no significant differences in engine wear between NYC taxicabs that used conventional API SH oil and Mobil 1 synthetic.

OTOH I quit using synthetic in my Nissan because a front seal leaked annoyingly with it. The only reason I used synthetic in the first place was because it was 6-38 cents a quart.

Because of all those senior citizens with Alzheimer's? ;)

Those cabs were mostly Ford Crown Vics, a 20 year old engine design with very sloppy engine tolerances.

Anyway, what does "significant" mean in this context. I would not trust Consumers Reports on that one.

Chebby Caprices, and the supposed tolerances don't matter since all of the engines were rebuilt before the test. Of course they failed to mention in that article whether they used chrome versus cast iron piston rings, cast versus hypereutectic pistons or aluminum versus copper/lead bearings. Since they switched out the roller cams in favor of flat tappet cams, one has to wonder what other 'modifications' they employed.

It might mean that [according to the CR article] Mobil 1 synthetic changed at 12,000 mile intervals performed as good as all of the conventional oils which were changed at 6000 mile intervals.

Or maybe works just as well for twice (or longer) as long is insignificant.

And then there's this from the article; "One distinction: According to the laboratory tests, Mobil 1 and Pennzoil Performax synthetics flow exceptionally easily at low temperatures - a condition our taxi tests didn't simulate effectively. They also had the highest viscosity under high-temperature, high-stress conditions, when a thick oil protects the engine. Thus, these oils may be a good choice for hard driving in extreme temperatures."

So, apparently high temperature viscosity stability IS important and ease of flow at low temperatures IS important. But they didn't think it was important to test during those conditions...

My own experiences with Consumer Reports 'findings' have not fared too well... I bought there recommended outdoor wood stain some years ago because, well, re-staining a cedar deck is costly and a pain in the ass. Their recommended stain peeled and wore off in less than two years.

I bought a Mitsubishi VCR 20+ years ago, after buying it, I read in Consumer Reports that that particular brand of VCR is not recommended because of the frequency of repairs. Frickin' thing lasted 16 years.

An obsolete standard of an obsolete standard. Relevance to today?

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying.

I suppose you think Ray O. is getting fleeced by scam artists since he uses synthetic oil in all 3 of his vehicles.