Are Camrys' Still as Well Make as in the past

No, they are not as well made as the pre-97s. Or even the highly regarded 82-84 (nobody wants these anyway). Toyota is slowing the introduction of new models just to address the quality issues they've encountered. In 2005 about 10% of Toyotas were affected by recalls. Only Ford did worse at 12%. Compared to 6% for GM.

That's why I say to wait on the 07 Camry to let the bugs work themselves out. So far we know some of these transmissions, with 20% fewer parts, skip gears after two months. I didn't know 20% of a transmission's parts are optional ;) But if you can find a new 06 still around at year-end clearance price it's probably the best bet.

lobo wrote:

Actualy in the last few years Toyota has Recallaed More cars than they sold for one model year, their recall rate for the US was for one year possibly a record,

So much for jap quality, now its jap crap.,

No im not biased , ive owned toys since 84

But crap is as crap does, break early.

Hmmm, just realized that both parts that failed were made by Denzo....

When you say 20% fewer parts, are you referring to the 6 speed A/T with sequential shift or the 5 speed A/T?

lobo wrote: I'm wondering if this is a sign of things to come.Has Toyota come around

================= Toyota is a victim of their own success. Fortune magazine had a feature article last year in an article describing them as one of the best run companies in the world but also having some difficulty translating their long standing concept of "kaizen" or continuous improvement to new workers. They were sending management people to the United States to try to instill the manufacturing culture that created such durable and popular vehicles. Simultaneously they are improving production time and profit. So they are striving to maximize efficiency on various fronts simultaneously. I think this is quite different from American manufacturers in the past deciding that by frivolously creating change and short product life, consumers would purchase more. Actually, the philosophies are opposites.

Yeah go buy a Chrysler or GM even a NISSAN and drive for a couple of years --- then you'll be back for Yota quality. I had stuff fixed free (AC on 12 year old 4Rnr) from Toyota - Special Service Campaign) many years past warranty. New cars are very complicated - stuff does break - but Yota stands behind fixing them (take the purported sludging of engines - they extended warranty). Plus price seems to remain pretty constant with new features added. You can still get a new Camry for $18k!

In 05 Toy recalled more cars than sold in the US, 2.38 million recalled,

The best Toyotas were made during 70s. These cars were easy to fix and service, had less plastic and rubber parts, were creatively designed and well build. While new, they still were able to go 25 mpg (corolla

Yeah if you don't mind them rusting away. New ones don't seem to rust.

The 70's car where indeed simple to maintain. Just imagine, those cars dont have electronic sensors, EFI and ABS and all those things cars have today. Now you need fault codes, special tools, etc.

I really don't remember my family having to talk about MPG in the 70's, what was important was MPH.

Pardon my ignorance about the rust problem because I am living in California. However, the hatch doors on 82-85 Celicas and Supras are developing huge rust gashes around the glass. Also, on my 87 Camry Wagon I have found primed, but unpainted area above the rear door opening around the hinges.