ransley is right. Steve showed a lack of understanding about the benefits of synthetic oil technology in terms of operating temperature range.
The hybrid engine technology has been around since the 1960. Toyota had the *marketing* advantage of bringing it into cars first. That's all.
.The 5000 mile service interval is the Toyota Sludge interval. It's post 97 engine designs run hotter and sludges up more easily. Honda and GM are pushing 12,000 mile service interavls. So why do their customers remember to change oil? Smarter?
No more than 4000 in a Toyota engine if you intend to keep it longer than 4yr/60K. Better yet 3000 on dino oil. Use a good oil filter like Bosch Filtech or Purolator PureOne.
Your interval is out of date. Toyota in 2004 reduced the 7500 mile interval down to 5000 miles because of sludge concerns. So you think customers of European cars, many with 15,000 mile intervals, don't forget? Maybe Toyota is simply saying that its customers aren't so smart?
I think you pointed out correctly that a smart person should read between the lines of what Toyota says. Otherwise you can buy an ocean front property in Arizona. And the seller will throw the Golden Gate in free. (-G. Strait).
So just tell us. Do you recommend dino or synthetics for Route 101's car?
Don't give us benefits of synthetics and then siding with the service writer against it.
[snip]I personally would use the thickest oil approved for the temperature range you operate in. It helps protect wear surfaces better while meeting the viscosity requirements for the temperature range.
So it's 5W-20 if you operate in that temperature range. Of course light weight oil like that has yet to meet any European high performance standards (typically ranges in 0/5W-30/40), it's more of an EPA oil.
However, since you use the dealer the Toyota oil filter imported from Thailand is what you get. I would of course prefer Bosch Filtech or Purolator PureOne. I think Toyota's shorter and taller ones are interchangeable, I'd use the taller one for more filtering area.
My interval is not out of date. I said that people with sludge do not change their oil at least every 7500 miles. It doesn't matter what Toyota says, I was talking about reality of how often people with sludge change their oil (or never change it).
It is true that recent V6 Toyotas are more susceptible to sludge than most other cars, but it is still a fact that there it is very rare for sludge to appear in a Toyota V6 where the oil is changed at least every 7500 miles (yes I know Toyota says 5000 miles). Given that a large number of people either forget to change their oil, or don't know they need to change their oil, then sludge will show up more often in the Toyota V6 compared to other engines. But that does not obviate the fact that it is very rare for sludge to appear in a engine where the oil is changed at least every 7500 miles (yes I know says 5000).
Anyone concerned about sludge (anyone with a Toyota V6) would be foolish to use anything but a full synthetic. You can safely go 5000 miles on a full synthetic (and probably a bit longer) which makes the price differential with conventional oil at 3000 mile changes fairly close to the same cost. This is especially true if you consider that a full synthetic will typically yield about 1-2% better fuel economy.
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Real true, my sister brought her new car by with 9000 miles, I checked the oil and it Stank bad, I asked when she changed it and she said, I havnt, I add oil if its low! I still say 7500 is way overdue considering 90% of us drive what is considered heavy usage. 3000 is realistic, even the synthetic since the additives cook out, blowby kills oil, the motor wears, and dirt does enter it. Now run Propane, and oild does stay clean 3x as long, gasolene blowby if full of contaminents
I didnt know 15000 existed, and I dont mean toyota by itself, my Volvo is at 7500 but I have seen the oil look totaly black at 2000 in winter
-city driving and ok at 4500 in city hwy driving. It comes down to a person knowing how oil should look and setting their own schedule based upon how he drives. In my city area its 3- 5000, in the country it should be alot more. Severe driving conditions is what all overlook and its how most of the US drives. City, short trip use is severe.
Ok sorry, for my type of city driving I cant go 7500 , I cant go 5000.
With all of the problems Toyota and other Manufacture's have seen, there must be a reason the service rep is cautioning Route 101 not to use a synthetic in the Hybrid, at least at this time. I'm not recommending either. I simply stated that a smart person would yield on the side of caution. The Hybrid engine is new and it seems there may be or are too many variables right now. As time goes by, these variables will disappear and a much clearer picture will emerge.
Personally, I have never used a synthetic in my vehicles. Now, that doesn't mean I don't like or mistrust synthetic's, I simply enjoy working on my vehicles and have never had a sludge or any other problem in 30+ years. And saved a few bucks along the way.
Now, if Route 101 has the money to spend on a replacement engine, if it should blow up due to using a synthetic, then by all means use a synthetic. If the service rep is just trying to sell their oil change service, rather than honest and straight forward advice, then Route 101 has a decision to make. But, unless I've misread something here, the latter seems to be true.
Maybe the service reps dealer doesnt sell 0-20 synthetics, or Mobil1, For the hybrid I cant think of a negative for mobil1, 0-20
I am not recommending a 7500 oil change interval. All I said is that people who get sludge do not change their oil at least every 7500 miles or less.
If your 7500 interval is true, then Hondas, GMs, VWs and many others will be sludging up with 10,000-15,000 mile oil intervals. So have you heard any dealer-maintained Hondas sludge up? NO! But dealer maintained Toyotas had sludged up.
No, Toyota/Lexus interval after 2004 *is* 5000 miles. Look up the latest schedule on toyota.com. You go 5001 miles technically your warranty is void.
Toyota seems to having engineering problems with the latest engine and transmission (U series) designs. It seems today's strict emissions demands are way above what they are capable of. Owners will have benefits in using synthetics in a Toyota, but Toyotas aren't designed for extended drain intervals. Only up to 5000 miles or your warranty is void.
Volvo is a great chassis maker with excellent safety features, their XC90 being a good example with its stability control. However, they buy their turbo engines from a US compnay, maybe Continental or something like that.
True luxury cars -- many European cars now use 15,000 mile type of intervals. I mentioned BMW high specification LL-01/04 oils. So which cars got these intervals? Hint. Hint. And the accelerator pedal controls continuously variable valve lift to accelerate, not the opening of throttle plates.
Great discussion guys. I think Route101 is long gone. ;) ;) ;)
What I cant figure is how can change intervals have increased over the years for some cars when my oil, Mobil one looks pretty bad at 5000,
15000 , it just sounds wrong, I mean they dont hold 5 gallons of oil or have giant truck filters, and they are gasolene motors. I would never feel safe waiting that long. If some state 15000 thats a car I would never buy used as you know the seller went at least 15000. I skipped one filter change once, when I changed it with maybe 8000 on it it was realy sludged up, to me, 3-5000 is still the way to go no matter what oil is used, for all cars. After all it still is a gasolene motor.Nope, still around. Don't post much, just lurk a lot. Thanks. I'm using 5W20 synthetic oil and Purolator Pure One or Bosch Premium oil filter, changing within 5k miles.
Speaking of filters, several years back (late 80s - 90s) I was advised by a Toyota service person to use only Toyota filters, because they have O-ring gaskets capable of handling the higher oil pressures than the flat gaskets on aftermarket filters. Never did any research to follow up on that. However, it would seem that if the filter is not leaking any oil, the flat gasket is working fine. .............................. Unable to locate Coffee -- Operator Halted !
What is a dealer maintained Toyota? Is the oil replaced at least every 5000 miles?
Actually, I have been using Mobil 1 Full Synthetic in my 98 V6 since first oil change and have had no problems (obviously). Engine still runs perfectly. I don't really understand why in the 21st century people are not using full synthetic oils.
Probably most Toyota employees are using full synthetics despite what they recommend to customers (just like Ray O.).
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