How hard is it to replace a clutch in a 5-speed manual transmission?
I have never done it, but it's generally cheaper to buy the tools and do it
yourself than to pay someone else. Plus you generally get better parts.
I've never done a clutch.
This is a Toyota 4Runner 1998 2WD with the W59 5-speed.
Anyone have any idea what I'll need besides a transmission lift?
Have you done a clutch?
How hard is it?
If you ask what work I've done, I've done cooling system overhauls, and
alternator replacements and the like when needed.
Youtube is pretty Spartan when it comes to things that most people don't
do. You'll NEVER find a DIY for your own vehicle, for example. Even if it's
as common as a Toyota 4Runner.
Search term: "diy clutch replacement w59 transmission" at Youtube:
I know the clutch was replaced only once on this 4Runner which has about
150K miles I think (I have to check).
Any idea of how long the clutch lasts?
I'm going to check the slave cylinder and master cylinder for leaks after
checking on the youtube videos that were suggested.
I already replaced the patented and overly complex torsion spring assembly
on the clutch pedal return mechanism, so it's not that.
The new Red Line MT-90 oil yesterday seems to have made a difference in
allowing it to shift when it couldn't get into gear when cold. I already
replaced the two bushings at the bottom of the shift lever (which were fine
but they're known to go bad so I replaced them anyway).
Is there a way to remove a view plate to VIEW the clutch plate visually?
On Tuesday, September 19, 2017 at 4:59:34 PM UTC-10, Chaya Eve wrote:
It would be a good idea to not change the clutch until you're sure that it
needs to be replaced. The symptoms for that would be the clutch slipping. M
ake sure that the clutch clearance on the arm is properly set and your slav
e and master cylinders are working properly. If your clutch is slipping und
er those conditions you need to replace it. Typically, you're going to get
a lot of warning if your clutch or pressure plate are worn and tired.
If your problem is difficulty shifting into gear, it's probably not your cl
utch but your linkage to the clutch lever.
On Wed, 20 Sep 2017 02:59:28 +0000 (UTC), Chaya Eve
My Ford Ranger had 307,000km when I bought it with a bad release cyl
(inside bell housing). The clutch was only about 1/4 worn, but with
all the labour already charged, the new clutch went in at the same
tome. My old Tercel had it changed at almost 500,000km just because I
had the engine out - it was only about half worn but I couldn't
justify not changing it while it was apart.
Not particularly. Sometimes there is a shield on the bottom of the
bellhousing that you can remove. You can't really see much but if a lot
of dust and pieces of lining are present it isn't good news.
What are the symptoms? Is it slipping when you floor the engine at 50
mph or so? Or just hard to engage and shift. My F150 had a appetite for
throwout bearings that gave the latter symptoms. They were good for
about 75k miles. By the time you're to the throwout you're almost to the
clutch do the last time around I replaced it and the pressure plate. I
think it was about $50 for both. Neither were in bad shape but while
you're there it's not much more work.
There *is* a semicircular shield plate on the bell housing.
I don't know what is behind it though.
Two different things, one of which was fixed yesterday:
1. The clutch pedal feels like crap (more about that below)
2. It wouldn't shift into gear when cold.
The cold-shift issue somehow, magically, went away when I replaced the
original fluid yesterday with Red Line MT-90 "miracle fluid". I didn't
believe in the miracle fluid, but the driver (who isn't me) reported that
it works just fine now for shifting into gear when cold. Huh? How can that
be? What on earth is so magical about that fluid that it makes shifting
into gear when cold possible when the only thing that changed was the
I don't understand it but I'm not complaining.
There is no indication of slipping of the clutch.
I can stall the engine easily when I put it in the wrong gear.
I can slip the clutch to get it to go in the wrong gear.
I can start on a hill in the right gear.
So there is no indication that the clutch itself is slipping.
The pedal feels like crap.
It was impossible to engage just two days ago. For months, the wife has
been complaining (it's actually her car) that it wouldn't go into gear. So
she shifted into reverse to get out of the garage. Then she turned the
engine off and back on. Then she shifted into first to make her K turn.
Then she turned the engine off and back on. Then she repeated this for as
long as it took her (something like five more steps than it takes me) to
complete her K turn and be on her way.
Yesterday and today, she was able to shift into the first and reverse gears
without turning off the engine! Can a simple oil change do that?
I don't understand it. I really don't.
BTW, I don't know if turning the engine off was necessary. I suspect not. I
suspect she could have gotten it into neutral and just activated the clutch
pedal a few times. The problem was it wouldn't get OUT of gear to go into
neutral. So she shut the engine down. When I tried it, I just held the
brake and pressed the clutch pedal a few times so I think the engine didn't
need to be turned off as I see nothing that turning off the engine should
do to the transmission. Do you?
This is my problem.
I know *nothing* about "forks" and "throwout bearings" and "pilot bearings"
Sure I watched that great video on how transmissions work but that doesn't
give me any *practical* knowledge about how to diagnose why the clutch
pedal feels like crap.
It's so hard to explain that even when I try, it's not the same as feeling
When I step on the pedal, and then release it while in gear, it just
doesn't feel right.
The pedal goes down ok, but then when I lift it up, the first couple of
inches are like floating in air, while the next inch it seems to fully
engage, where the next four or five inches of release travel is wasted as
the clutch is already engaged.
Assume the whole pedal travel is, oh I don't know, let's say 12 inches.
The engagement travel is something like an inch it seems.
The rest of the 11 inches aren't doing anything.
Does that make any sense?
Is the clutch linkage mechanical or hydraulic? Get under it and you'll
see some sort of lever sticking out the side of the bellhousing. Have
your wife operate the clutch and see if you are getting a full stroke
and smooth travel.
It really sounds like the clutch isn't disengaging cleanly. It doesn't
take too much drag to make shifting difficult. With the F150 the
throwout bearing was the culprit. It would start to hang up on the nose
of the transmission. At first I thought it was the slave cylinder of the
hydraulic so I replaced it. (And anyway that was a lot easier).
The symptoms were very erratic so sometimes it would work, sometimes
not. I also thought it might be the pivot ball for the lever arm. A
spray of lube and it would work for a while but I think that was just
coincidental. That could be why your miracle oil worked.
All Japanese cars, I'm told, are hydraulic.
This one certainly is hydraulic.
I bled the slave cylinder months ago but it didn't do anything.
I went through my photos in my fluid change DIY where I didn't snap one of
the pink slave cylinder but in the far left you can see the rubber-booted
actuating mechanism into the clutch that the slave cylinder operates.
I can have her press the pedal but I'd have to know how much travel to look
for at the transmission itself.
I'm all with you on the fact that the "miracle oil" must be an anomaly of
some sort because I just can't believe it makes that much of a difference
between a non-working transmission when cold making a K turn out of the
garage and a working one, when the fluid level was not low (it was actually
20 ounces too high).
On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 18:21:11 +0000 (UTC), Chaya Eve
The RIGHT oil can make all the difference - or is it the wrong oil???
There may be several oils that work "OK" and one that really screws
thins up, or in some cases one oil that works well, and half a dozen
that cause varying degrees of bedlam.
The secret? Use the recommended oil or one of the same spec
I can't give you a concrete number but typically they're designed to use
most of the travel of the slave cylinder. Obviously it can't bottom out
on either end but you should see smooth travel throughout its range of
motion, with a little play in the lever when it's fully retracted.
I will repeat that I was shocked that the fluid change made what would
clearly not shiftable when cold, now shiftable. (New fluid didn't change
the clutch pedal feel issue of course - but it magically "fixed" the fact
that a cold K turn out of the garage required multiple killing of the
engine where now that's not needed.)
This is what the top 20 ounces of the old clutch fluid looked like:
And this is what the bottom 72 ounces of clutch fluid looked like:
Where 2.9 quarts came out but the spec is for only 2.7 quarts.
This is the gunk that was in the drain plug:
I think the only thing "wrong" with the fluid that I could tell is that
there was 20 ounces too much and it looked pretty dirty.
Certainly it should have been changed long ago, where it could be the
original 20 year old fluid if the clutch job five or so years ago didn't
I know the history of the car from day 1, so it definitely only had one
time where there would have been a chance of the fluid being changed, and
that was the clutch job years ago at half the current mileage.
There is a release cylinder?
Googling for "toyota clutch release cylinder" shows up stuff.
Here's a boot for the "clutch release cylinder" but is that the same thing
as a "slave cylinder"?
The master/slave cylinders may be bad.
I will check them for leaks.
Dunno if there is anything else that can be checked yet.
The one thing though is that the clutch is going to *need* to be replaced
soon anyway as it has had the same clutch for five years or more.
On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 18:42:29 +0000 (UTC), Chaya Eve
Potato potauto - same thing.
They can bind. So can the linkage. The pivot ball on the release
(throw-out) fork can also wear and stick - and so can the release
bearing (where it slides on the "nose" of the transmission)
If the driver knows how to use the clutch, that is immaterial. My
ranger had 307000km on it when I got it - with the original clutch -
and the clutch was less than half worn - I had to replace the
internally mounted release cyl/bearing assembly so we put in a new
clutch at the same time. The truck was 17 years okd - it is now 22
with 354000km on it.
On Thursday, September 21, 2017 at 3:41:52 PM UTC-10, firstname.lastname@example.org wr
Basically, the idea is to engage 1st gear with the least amount of slippage
. My Subaru was geared so low that I could put it into 1st with no slippage
. My wife would always heat the clutch up in my Alfa Romeo. This caused it
to start slipping. I could drive that car with no problems because I never
heated up the clutch.
Eventually, I had to do a clutch job. The good part was that it didn't need
any jacks to do it. All that had to be done was to remove the driveshaft.
The bad part was that it was an Alfa.
On Wednesday, September 20, 2017 at 10:03:54 AM UTC-10, Chaya Eve wrote:
Bleed your clutch lines. Make sure your clutch master cylinder is filled. Make sure your slave cylinder and the lines aren't leaking. If you bleed the system and it still has that problem, replace the master cylinder.
In rec.autos.tech, on Wed, 20 Sep 2017 00:57:20 +0000 (UTC), Chaya Eve
I wouldn't include diy. All the videos are for diy. Even if they are
intended for auto mechanics, how different would they be from what's
intened for you?
I wouldn't include W59. Or at least if I didn't find what I wanted I'd
take it out and put in 4runner. I don't know if a 4runner has more
possible manual transmissions, but a good part of the instructions will
be the same even if it does. I don't known if other Toyota cars use the
same transmission, but they might, so I'd also try it with Toyota
instead of 4runner. I might well specify the year -- youtube is good
about also returning hits with nearby years, and iirc will also return a
video with the title 2008 - 2012 even if you only specify 2010.
I don't think I'd even put in replacement. If it's a video about
clutches, it's going to be either replacement or inspection or ...?
If you get too many hits, then you can put in more terms (but that
doesn't seem to be your problem).
Just last night I was searching youtube and I learned a lot from videos
that didn't really meet my search terms. For one thing, one that
doesn't fit will be followed by something related, maybe something that
fits better. In theory you would have found it in the search list, but
my experience is that it often works better by letting the sequence find
it for you, (until of course the sequence goes way off topic). That
doesn't mean it won't get totally misled by terms like diy.
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