I am an information sponge

Ok, I will answer these with how I understand them, take this with a LARGE grain of salt:

It was the second type of vehicle produced by Volkswagen.

Type1: Original bug motor Type2: dunno, this is the weak link in my reasoning. Type3: Many improvements over type 1/2 motors. Type4: still more improvements over the type3 motor.

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Nothing.

There's no such thing as a 'Type IV motor'.

Volkswagen identified its engines according to displacement; 1100, 1300, 1600 and so on.

Type Number is used to identify the basic CHASSIS.

After WWII the reorganized VW company started from scratch with the Type I -- the basic beetle. The Type 2 was the Transporter, introduced in 1949. The Type 3 was the squareback, meant to replace the beetle (but never did) followed by the Type 4... also meant to replace the beetle, etc...

Type 3 got a 1500 cc engine... later used in Types 1 & 2. Type 4 had a 1700cc engine, later used in the Type 2 and the Porsche 914.

So why all the confusion? Most of it stems from the ill-informed editors of the various magazines. Not only did they mix-up the engines & chassis types, when VW introduced the four-joint rear suspension the idiot-editors called it 'IRS' (Independent Rear Suspension)... which VW has used since 1937.

Volkswagen has produced more than 137 different 'Types' of chassis, from the basic beetle to mail trucks. In addition, there have been literally hundreds of different bodies built on one or anothe of the basic chassis, like the convertable and Karmann-Ghia (basic bug), the ambulance, pick-up, (on the Type

2) and so on. What most Americans call the Thing is the Type 181.

But like the man said, perception IS reality. Which is why we're stuck with the 'Type 4' engine. Although some folks use Roman numerals to differentiate between the engine (Type IV) and the vehicle (Type 411 Squareback).

-Bob Hoover

*snip*

TYPES OF CARS

Type 1: Bug and Relatives Type 11: Bug and 71-72 Super Beetle (1302) Type 13: 73-75 Super Beetle (1303) Type 14: "small" Karmann Ghia coupe and convertible Type 147: post delivery van "Fridolin" Type 15: Bug and Super Beetle convertible Type 181: jeepish army vehicle "181" aka "Thing"

Type 2: Bus, Transporter, Camper Type 21: Panel Van Type 22: Bus Type 23: Kombi, Camper Type 24: Deluxe Bus Type 26: Pickup (Singlecab and Crewcab) Type 27: Ambulance

Type 3: VW 1500, 1600 Type 31: Notchback, Fastback aka TL Type 36: Squareback aka Variant Type 34: "large" Karmann Ghia coupe

Type 4: VW 411, 412 Fastback (2-dr, 4-dr) Squareback aka Variant (2-dr only)

(Are there sub-Types like for the Type 1, 2, and 3, for the Type 4 too? I'd love to know them!)

GENERATIONS OF TYPE 2 CARS

T1: 1950-67, Splitty aka Split-window T1a: 1950-55, Barndoor T1b: 1955-63, narrow rear hatch T1c: 1964-67, wide rear hatch

T2: 1968-79, Bay(window) aka (bread)Loaf T2a: 1968-71, Type 1 engines only T2a/b: 1972, Type 4 available, but old nose still T2b: 1973-79, new nose and bumpers

T3: 1980-92, Vanagon aka Wedge Aircooled Type 1 (not US) and Type 4 engines From 1982, Diesel inline engine available From 1984, watercooled boxers replace aircooleds

T4: 1990-today, Eurovan Offtopic here ;-)

TYPES OF ENGINES

Type 1 engine or "upright" Used in all Type 1 cars (hence the name) and in all Type 2 cars until and including model year 1979 (T1 and T2). US market: in Type 2 cars until and including model year 1971 (T1 and T2a).

Type 3 engine (some call it Type 1 too though) Modified Type 1 engine with redesigned cooling system, much flatter. Used in all Type 3 cars.

Type 4 engine or "pancake" All-new design. First used in Type 4 cars (hence the name), also used in Type 2 cars from 1972 (standard in US, optionally elsewhere), in the VW-Porsche 914/4 and in the Porsche 912 E (a fuel-saving 911 derivative).

*snap*

Huh?

Volkswagen built one inline-four Diesel engine (in lots and lots of variations, from 1500cc 50 bhp up to 2000cc 16V TDI 150 bhp), which first was introduced in the mid-70s for the Golf and Passat, reached the Type 2 T3 (Vanagon) in 1981, and today is abundant thoughout the Volkswagen, Audi, Seat, and Skoda model range from Polo to Passat. It never was factory fitted in Type 2 T2 (Loaf) buses, but there are such modifications by enthusiasts.

Volkswagen also built many other Diesel engines, of course: a smaller inline-four for the Lupo and Polo, an even smaller inline-three for same, an inline-five for the Type 2 T4 (Eurovan) and Touareg, a V-6 for the Passat and Phaeton, a V-10 for the Phaeton and Touareg, and even an inline-six for the old LT van. They never built a Diesel boxer engine, though. Nor did anyone else; Subaru will be the first to do so, at least in passenger-car size. Airhowlingly yours, Erik.

Hmmmmmmm...I could be wrong, but I thought the type IV was indeed distinctively different than the type 1 through 3 motors. It uses an all-aluminum case, the type 1-3 motors used a magnesium case. The oil filler was different, and the type IV had a spin-on oil filter. The type 1-3 did not. Type IV's entire rotating mass assembly (IE crankshaft, rods) was very different and much stronger than the type

1. The type IV heads used an entirely different valve design. The type IV cooling shroud was flat (in stock form) and was similar to the type 3. The type IV oil coolers were much larger and more efficient than the type 1-3.

So I would argue that there IS a such thing as a type IV motor. Its internals and peripherals are Very different than the type 1-3. The type of the motor does come from the chassis type, and one might be able to argue that the type 1-3 are the same engine. The type IV is deffinitely NOT the same engine.

~Anthony

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To which Anth> The

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Just what part of '1700' didn't you understand? Are you confused by the fact the 1300cc engine grew into a 1600? Or that the 1700cc engine grew to two liters? There are significant differences between the engines but the original question had to do with their nomenclature, not their mechanical differences, which are so obvious on inspection that it's impossible to confuse them.

-Bob Hoover

On Thu, 15 Apr 2004 14:41:14 +0200, Erik Meltzer scribbled this interesting note:

The first several pages of the Chilton's Repair and Tune-Up Guide for Volkswagen 1949 to 1971 are devoted to vehicle identification and there are indeed several sub-catagories. This just happened to be the nearest book to hand so I thought I'd take a look:

Type 111, 115, 113, 117, 141, 143, 151, 211-215, 221-225, 231-237,

241, 251, 261-267, 271-273, 281-285, 311, 313, 315, 317, 343, 345, 361, 363, 365, 367, 411, 411

And there appears to be even more flavors than these, if you care to track them all down.

-- John Willis (Remove the Primes before e-mailing me)

Hah!

1st off, Thx for the info folks.

btw- I grew up w/ a John Willis (best friend) & a Bob Hoover (father of classmates & role model), sorry others, you guys don't match. ;])

Bob, I understand perceptions altering reality. I am into water cooled more, Scirocco specifically & the UK magazines started this thing where Mk1 = VW A1 chassis, Mk2 = VW A2 chassis, etc. Makes some crazy because an A1 Mk1 Scirocco is one built 1974-81, an A1 Mk2 = 82 and beyond.

Erik, Follow up, re: Diesel motor question. I know the Vanagons came with the Inline 4 oil burners, and it makes for a platform to hybrid in a upgraded (;debatable) motor of larger size & power. I though maaaaybe the earlier buses might also have a similar option.

Seems the 2 liter air cooled is the way to go, maxed out wise.

Again, Thx.

TBerk

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Nothing really new. Lacking information, humans tend to go for the easy answers.

Logical reasoning used to be a main-stay in public schools. Following the Aristotelian model (ie, humans younger than ten years of age are incapable of logical thought) it was usually introduced in the Fifth Grade (often called 'Rhetoric' or something similar) and was considered an absolute necessity for entry into High School.

The corporations changed all that after the advent of television, having found it impossible to sell their pumped-up products to anyone with a whit of reason. ('Whiter than white!' 'New and Improved!' 'Tide's in, dirt's out' etc. As a simple test, 99% of the subscribers to this Newsgroup are incapable of detecting the errors of logic which tell you each of those statements has to be a lie.) Today's American's are dumbed-down to the point where they think a budget surplus is something good (it means you been over-taxed, guys) and actually believe what they see on TV and read in the newspapers, despite repeated evidence that virtually all politicians and most reporters are liars.

Unless the person is a total air-head, by the time they're fifty or so they realize they've been fed a steady diet of bullshit. Of course, by then it's too late.

I've always told people to think for themselves. The tricky bit is the assumption that they know how :-)

-Bob Hoover

Excellent post Bob. Exactly how I feel.

Jan