OT: American national ID card

It's pertinent because it is all about personal freedoms.

I didn't know that.

Technically, our system is a Republic. :) There is only one country in the world with a perfect Democracy - Sweden - and their economy is socialist! Strange, eh?

Huh? I thought in Democracy you elected a President or other similar type of leader for the country. Sweden is a monarchy. Leadership is inherited in the family. And I'm not sure what you mean with Socialist economy in this case.

Jan (Finland, next door to Sweden ;)

:) I thought that would bring you out, Jan.

A democracy can exist in terms other than the US system, which is really a Republic, thank goodness. Democracy can exist in a monarchy, and contrary to impressions, democracy does not require a capitalist economy.

Yeah, it gets technical. In this case, I mean the aspiration to support cradle-to-grave personal security (e.g. health, food, shelter).

heh heh

But the head of the government is not democratically elected by the people. So it's not a "clean" example of a democratic state.

Right.

We also offer that kind of welfare support to those of our nationals who cannot provide it for themselves. To certain extent, and with different limitations and conditions. Some countries have *some* of it better than us, like Spain where as I undersdtand it, medicine and possibly basic healthcare services are free of charge for pensioners. Again, I'm sure certain limitationd and conditions are applied there too.

Jan

Good point. Thanks. But the Swedes vote on just about everything, right?

...............representative democracy = a republic.

......direct democracy = mob rule.

.................Every single American citizen (aside from convicted felons) is eligible for participation in the selection of their governmental representative(s). Small states (fewer voters) may get more influence in the US Senate than big states but that's an imperfection, not proof that we don't have democracy. If you're a purist about these things, that's your business. Just don't expect to create too many converts from among the sane.

As far as I know, yes. Everything but the head of state :) We vote on everything possible, even organize "people's vote" (?) like sweden on issues like "should Finland join the EU" and stuff. The government probably has Veto, but so far they have pretty much listened to the people.

Sweden BTW is a member of the EU but they haven't joined the monetary union (EMU) like the majority of EU member countries.. so they still have their own currency. We went to Euros a couple of years back.

Jan

"Tim Rogers"

My fever must be getting worse: I agree with you on that, and so did many of our founding fathers.

Who are you arguing with?

............uh.......I thought it was you.

.........You're trying to confuse me aren't you?

Nope. I think you drew an incorrect interpretation of what I was saying.

Sorry Tim, and Mr. Stafford................Comments inserted.

I'm about done with the term.............It was once useful, but everything that's contemplated nowadays, becomes a slippery slope to it's opponents.( not an attack, John, Just an observation and my attitude toward the term, not the user of the term, as I have a fair amount of enthusiasm toward reading your entries most of the time.)

Just like It's not legal to enter the US without taking the proper steps?....................Implement away,.............LOL ......yeah right. ENFORCE is the term we need to be looking at.

Uh,..........automated stuff..........we should ponder that a while. I think it's not a good idea to take human judgment out of the loop for each situation. Automatic monitoring without some *way* hard line regulation is a bad thing...........that's the kind of stuff BIG BOTHER is made of.

The IRS only has the capability to know. It only knows about the money part til you fail to pay. Then it can become a bit more personal in it's dig for info on a person. Yes, there are times it happens when it shouldn't. But that is not as common as you might wish to think. Usually if the IRS is up someone's posterior, they have a reason to be there.

I agree with the last part there Tim. As stated above that remark, Mostly harmless til they think you owe them enough to make it worth their time to hunt you and everything about you down.

I see both of your points. I understand them from each point of view.

I believe we (the people) have given enough of our privacy and rights up to a government that was supposed to be for us, by us and of us. I don't believe our current government is all that good at keeping the spirit of the government's role in mind. There is too much emphasis on

The sad fact is, even though I am that put out with it, I still believe the concept of what The United States Government is supposed to be is one of the most awesome governments ever dreamed up. It's still possible that it can be "fixed", but it's gonna be a long time getting there *if* it ever does.

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MUADIB®

In case you missed this article...

That explains it all Now doesn't it?!

I could,.........actually believe some of that article. However, they forgot to put the memo out with it to justify the story. This is commonplace within the current media giants. Tell the story, the way you want it to be heard. Then leave a bunch of half truths/half lies for the people to draw conclusions from.

I read the "memo" also..................all of it is suspect to me at this point. But I am willing to entertain the idea that it is authentic, and that it is a tell all memo.

I find it a bit too convenient for anything to come out either way at this point as it could easily "explain" all the ins and outs that are already public knowledge, or maybe something new. But as it goes in todays world, the news is just another form of entertainment for most people. They just *think* it's news.

I stand by my feelings posted on the whole Government a couple posts back.

Thanks for the link though Shaggie

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MUADIB®

On Thu, 12 May 2005 22:00:17 +0300, Jan Andersson scribbled this interesting note:

This is the part I find hard to believe everyone swallows. It isn't free. Someone pays for it. Without fail. No matter what particular iteration of the "system" you choose to look at.

-- John Willis (Remove the Primes before e-mailing me)

Yes, someone pays for it, but they aren't at war with someone so it seems they can afford it.

The alleged document in question

I think you mean Switzerland. They vote about almost everything.

Our conomy is not more than half socialist. The taxes are only about 50%.

/Sven from Sweden

Our King is not our leader, he's just a mascot. Actually he's the only one in Sweden that does not have freedom of speech.

You are in some way right about our leader. He is not elected by the people. The Prime minister is elected by the parliament.

/Sven from Sweden

Does that mean you actually get to keep half your paycheck? That's better than some of us do in the USA.