tie-rod end (and SF mechanic suggestion?)

I have 2 dilemmas (a quartlemma?). 1) I don't know if I should have a lot of the front-end work (i.e. tie-rod end and king pin replaced) done simultaneously, or just the essential. 2) I don't know who to bring the car to.

1) I have a 1965 Ghia (with a 1600cc dual-port engine). When I bought it ~6 months ago, I had a lot of work done on it (transmission rebuild, breaks fixed, wheel barrings replaced). Yesterday, I took it to a second mechanic and we noticed that right (passenger-side) inner tie-rod end is very worn. When we moved the right wheel, the connection to the steering connector was very sloppy. It looks dangerous and I want to replace it. But should I have the other tie- rod ends replaced at the same time, even if they look OK? The left outer tie-rod end boot is a little cracked.

Both mechanics noticed play in the left king pin, but were able to grease the king pin and eliminate most of the play. It doesn't look as dire as the tie-rod end, on the other side, but should I replace the king pin and linking pins at the same time? I'd like to do the minimum to be safe and prevent further damage.

From reading the Muir book, it seems that wheel alignment after one tie-rod end replacement shouldn't be too complicated. If I had all the parts worked on, then alignment might be more difficult and costly.

2) Grrrr. I need to buy tools, especially a jack, and start learning how to do this stuff on my own. But the tie-rod end doesn't look like it can wait for that.

Does anybody know a great aircooled VW mechanic in the San Francisco Bay Area (I'm in Palo Alto, on the Penninsula)? I'm not sure I should go back to the first mechanic (who didn't notice the dangerous tie-rod end) or the second mechanic (who doesn't seem to do a TON of work on aircooled, but probably could do the job 1000 times better than I could).

-Sam

P.S. I sent this same question to the KG listserv, so I hope too many people didn't have to see it twice!

Reply to
Sam
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I vote you take it back to the mechanic that did all of the work to it!

So he/she missed the bad loose tie rod end recently, or it has been 6 months since he/she has seen it?

It is your preference to change out all of the tie rods or tie rod ends. Sometimes it is easier to replace the entire tie rod than try to loosen up a tie rod end that is rusted to the tie rod. But you may not have that problem in SF! ;-)

JMHO

Reply to
dave AKA vwdoc1

You can do the tie rod yourself. You could rent (free, you get your deposit back) a puller from some auto parts stores, down here in Florida Autozone and Advance Discount Autoparts have a free loaner tool program. They don't cost a ton to buy either, and the same tool should also be able to pop the ball joints off the spindle. A couple different designs exist, that you turn with a wrench to work them. Or you could buy a cheap pickle fork and hit it with a big hammer to pop the joint loose. I also have a pickle fork kit that attaches to an air hammer... no manual labor: BRRRRAAAPPP and it's off :) (around $50 at Sears)

before you start turning the tie rod end off the rod, clean the rod somewhere in the middle, and mark it with something. Tape, marker, paint.. whatever works. Then measure the distance from your mark to the center of the tie rod socket cup/cover. You want the new tie rod end screwed in so the distance stays the same, that way your alignment won't change much at all. (if it was out of spec to begin with, it will still be out).

I would do all the tie rod ends at the same time, parts aren't that expensive and once you've done one, you know how to do it and the rest won't take as long to replace. If you did only one, and took the car to a shop for an alignment and they found other tie rod ends with wear and play, you wasted your time.

A cheap little 2-ton rolling floor jack is all you need for small repairs on a beetle, you should be able to find one for $25-25. Worth every penny. For this job, a jackstand or two would be nice too.

If you have play in the tie rod ends, a professional alignment cannot be done. (if someone says they can, they are stealing your money. I do alignments for a living, among other things).

I don't know link pin front ends well enough to say how much play is allowed and normal, and how much that would affect alignment. I know excess ball joint play makes alignment difficult, or just impossible. You can get it sort of in the ballpark, enough to make the vehicle driveable, but that's about it.

An alignment shop would REALLY appreciate it if all the tie rod nuts and ends move easily on the rods, instead of being rusted solid. Some shops may tell you they cannot be adjusted due to rust. Some may charge extra. Go to a shop that charges flat rates, i.e. list prices for labor, if you want to eliminate surprises. Tip the mechanic! he is losing money if he has to fight with rusty, stuck parts. Downside is, they will do everything they can to do it as fast as possible. Quality and accuracy are secondary. I work in a flat rate shop. And hate it.

You can do a crude toe in/out adjustment at home with just a tape measure, that might get you by. Ballpark, again, to keep the car driveable. Camber and caster adjustments require some special tools or fabrication of such, which I assume are outside of your scope for DIY work right now.

Jan

Reply to
Jan Andersson

You could contact the Golden Gate Chapter for recommendations on good VW shops in the area:

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They are a nice bunch of people of all ages and backgrounds. Maybe you would like to join.

Reply to
Jan Andersson

Thanks, everyone, for your comments. I feel encouraged!

-Sam

Reply to
Sam

"BRRRRAAAPPP" Peasoup and beer does that for me as well

and it's off :) (around $50 at Sears)

The king pin itself is not adjustable as you know, but can and should be greased at all times. If worn, grease will work for a day or two(Takes out the slack).

When it comes to the two link pins on each side, they are shimmed and should not have their shims moved around unless you can measure camber. The play should be set to "tight but not binding". Of cause there are given data, but most people do not know how to measure correctly..

It is amazing how some of these vehicles have stood up to negligence though. Being very young at not attentive, I had a front wheel lock up in turns only. The nut holding the outer bearing/drum+inner bearing was about to come off the spindle.. And I had only used it for a week that way..

That being said, I bent a rear axle on my -56 T1 during the winter, being mechanicaly inclined and with a friend who was a Bus mechanic we tore the tranny out of the car. Little did we know that you had to split the tranny on the -56 to replace the axles, we managed to get it together somehow. If you read a proper shop-manual for those old trannys, you would notice a few critical measures, I guess we where lucky. The only bitch I can remember was a constant oil leak into the left rear drum, you got used to the "Three wheel twist" after a while. Either I had gotten the order of shims/spacers/gaskets wrong twice, Or the axle had streched,or the drum shrunk .

The great thing about early air-cooled VW's you could actually get away with these things.

My uncle raced Formula Vee and Formula 3 cars being young, him and my grandfather(His father) loaded the Formula V car onto a single cab Vw pickup and drove from Oslo to Monaco! Somwhere in France the pickup's engine said goodbye and left them stranded. The story goes: A Norwegian on the FISA(?) board passed them and asked if it was anything he could do to help? Neither my grandfather or his son spoke much lingo at all, so they asked whetter he knew of a scrapyard where they could look for a donor engine. End of the story, less than one hour later they where on their way! A side note: Being stranded with little or no cash the future did not look to bright, so my uncle had started to unbolt the Formula Vee engine to transplant into the pickup when this helpful individual turned up.

When in Monaco they slept under the tarp of the Pickup in the pit area, whilst the rest enjoyed the local hotels.

And as a side note, my uncle took part in Monaco GP twice, If I have got it right, one time in Formula Vee and once in Formula 3, 1967 is a year I know for sure, the other is either a year earlier or later..

I grew up on these stories, and got to see one or two of the race cars before he quit, being four or five at the time it was better than sex? Nah, to early, food? Candy? Overdoze of Banana Split? Yeah, that must be it.

J.

I know

Reply to
P.J.Berg

When I lived in South San Francisco in 1968, I went to Eddie's European Car Service in San Bruno. The guy I bought my 1970 bug from also went to Eddie's up to a few years ago when I bought the bug. I see he is still in business and the same Eddie is still the owner. I would HIGHLY recomend him. I was a high school kid in 1968 and he never ripped me off. If he has been in business at the same location for 40 years, he must be doing something right.

European Car Service

928 El Camino Real San Bruno, CA 94066 (650) 589-0233
Reply to
Robert

You can infact get the measures using a tape measure quite close, very common to do on Go-Karts and race cars if on a budget. I have used both, tape measure and a portable beam/arrow thing tool, s**te if working on race cars as they are to close to the ground to allow this tool being shifted from front of the tires to the rear of them.

Scribe a sharp and clear cross in the middle of the threads of both front tires, line the two markings up on the same height 90 deg to the ground, take a measure, roll the car so the markings turn up a 180deg the opposite way, measure away and subtract.. Sounds crude, but with a tad of experience it is very very close. Only drawback, you need to be two.

J

Camber and caster adjustments require some special tools or

Reply to
P.J.Berg

HaHaHa!!!! Great stories!

Please write some more of them.

Speedy Jim

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Reply to
Speedy Jim

Hi guys, When I remove tie rod ends I take a pickle to both ends and turn the bar over on a board and make a mark with both grease fittings and measure between the marks then make up the new assembly and measure again. I beleive the grease fittings are on center with the stud and castle nut . I paid a guy $80.00 to fix a car and that is how he did it and I drove

40,000 mi. on a set of tires ,maybe it was just luck but it worked on an old Nash Rambler-Beep Beep.

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Reply to
Jerry - OHIO

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