A buddy of mine has a complete type iv engine that he wants to get rid of for cheap. I have a '68 Westy with a 1600 dp which is running well but in time will need to be replaced. I am tempted to take the type 4 engine off my friend's hands but I wonder if it is a good idea. I know the pros of the type 4, beefier case, more horsepower, longer life but I wonder about the negs, they tend to drop valves I think I have heard, and I wonder about parts availability. WE have been talking about how some type 1 parts are starting to get scarce and or expensive so it makes me wonder about the parts availability of type 4 stuff, like heads and valves and P&Cs. Would I be better off just building out my 1600 as a 1776 down the line? What do you guys think?
Hi.If you think T1 parts are getting scarce and expensive,wait till you see the T4 scene.Build the 1600 as a 1776 using good quality parts,mild cam and carb(s) and use the leftover cash to buy a Ghia.Steve
For th ebus, go with the T4 and throw in a mild cam. Rebuild heads or buy a new pair. Pay attention to valve seats, that's the problem source. They loosen up and can even "fall out" of place.
Come on the parts are NOT getting harder to find, for neither type, and in fact there has bee a growing aftermarket for the type4 engine and it still is getting bigger.
Type4 just means the parts are 4 times more expensive that type 1 :)
People don't know the type4 and they are reluctant to try and learn because of the expense. And because of that the prices stay high.
They are VERY common on street cars in Europe, and USA (As usual) is dragging a few years behind. ;)
Wow Jan, I am happy you shot right in there and came out with the facts. I have been fighting the T-4 myths for over 15 years and now I don't have to fight any more guys like Jan, that have done the conversion do the work for me, ha. Serious, expensive, what is expensive to build a T-1 is going to go through it's second or third rebuild. That is now expected to have more power because of some performance parts and is lucky to last 10 to 25,000 miles. Or put the same money, yes the same money into rebuilding a stock
2.0 T-4. The T-4 will go over 100,000 miles in an early bus, they normally do that in the later model heaver buses and 150 to 200,000 miles in Bugs and Ghia's. That is why I wrote THE TYPE IV UPRIGHT CONVERSION MANUAL. Waiting for my T-1 to explode and leave me somewhere and blowing mega bucks and time. With a T-4 you put it in and forget about it. OK, simple example, Late model heavy buses go over 100,000 miles with there T-4's. How long to you think a T-1 that was not build for torque but for a light bug, will go in a 72 or later bus. My guess 10k. Go to my site and read the UPDATE for some simple info and check out the photos and articles .
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And if you don't believe me ask the guys that have done it at the Type IV Forum. They love to share their experiences.
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By the way like Jan said the T-4 in the UPRIGHT converted form goes into a T-1 car easier then the T-1 and no body mods needed. Bolts right up. I took a stock 914 engine added a cam and now pump out a 125hp. We are talking over twice the stock HP and with T-4's that's mild. That was 50,000 miles ago. It cruises at 75 to 80 mph and blasts to over 100 in seconds. I don't want to go as fast as it can go in a bug. The 914 was able to go
125 mph and it weighed 500 pounds more.
If you have any questions just ask. Regards, Joe Cali
Joe, I am thinking of putting a Type 4 in a '68 Bus. If I do the upright conversion would I have to make any modifications to the body? Is it simply aq bolt in tranny wise as well? And are there any parts availability issues with the type
...this is the hardest conversion because of the unsupported transaxle... read the following. Do you have a welder? basic fabrication skills? doesn't seem like too bad a project really....just a little more difficult than the plug and play nature of other type 4 conversions..
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in fact you might want to browse that whole web site
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...as well as doing a little poking around here: \
Find out what year engine he has. Later ones are *not* bolt-in to your tranny. And, as Gary pointed out, your '68 Bus tranny needs to have a support at the rear of the engine to carry the weight. Also, if you go for the expense of the upright conversion, I'm pretty sure you'd want to do a thorough rebuild on an engine of unknown history...
Dan, you will not have to do ANY mods to the Bus metal. I have a T4 (Stock
1700) in my 66 Bus and made no mods tot he metal. It could go back to a T1 with just pulling the motor (never happen while I own it). I use the DTM (down the Middle) systems that was being sold my the late Joe Lucerio (SP?). Jake Raby now sells it, though there's a wait for it. Joe Cali sells a brochure about converting it to upright using common parts and is less expensive. You would have to decide which is better for you. Email me off group and I'd be glad to post some pics for you.
Just to set the record straight- I'm a huge fan of the Type 4 engine. There's no comparison with regard to performance and longevity. I'm also a big fan of the FI on later engines.
But you gotta look at the inherent up-front costs in deciding...
Speedy this is what I email Dan to his personal email today. I hear ya, and I agree he has to decide. The reason I sent him to the T-4 is because there are guys that have done it and I Gary posted giving his personal experience after having done it. Like I said to Dan below if it was a T-1 bug or ghia, and you want to do some drag racing or just are happy with a stock engine. Fine go T-1, but a bus is a weird machine, because it is a big freaking box that we try to fit as much in as we can. Which can translate into two tons vs. the engine was designed for a 1700 lb car. I am sure Gary is giving him the low down. No one knows better that a guy that did it. BTY I recommend a rear hanger or tranny straps on T-4 conversions because the torque can twist a nose cone quickly. T-4 conversions are for guys wanting continuous power, low end torque and highway power that blows away most newer cars. T-1's are better for off the line acceleration but not Autobahn cars like a bug with a T-4. Joe Dan, No body work is needed. As for the bolt up, you must use a T-4 bus flywheel and clutch, then it bolts up. The clutches are monsters so they work great in buses. Also the T-4 was built for Buses so they are very torquey on low end and great for hill climbing.
Go to the T-4 Forum and ask the guys many have done it and I am sure will give you great hints.
Believe me, if you had a bug I would say, OK stick with a T-1 if you are happy, but not with a bus. This is the way to go.
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