Shopping for my first Volvo

I'm in the Austin TX area and I need a little information.

Will a pre-Ford model be more reliable than a post-Ford model? One camp in the household thinks we should spend upwards of $30k to get a late-model dealer certified car with some portion of the original warranty remaining. The other camp in the household thinks an older, pre-Ford model will in the long run be more reliable, if perhaps not so posh or shiny; plus it'll save us as much as $20k!

Comments? Diatribe?

Additional info: I do my own routine maintenance. I farm out any major or heavy work and I trust my mechanic.

Reply to
Guy.A.Regular
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Used Volvos go for a premium in "Keep It Wierd" Austin. If you have a friend in Houston or Dallas to help get a pre-purchase inspection on a vehicle in those markets, you can save a lot off the purchase price. On-line sales (ebay, etc.), with a pre-purchase inspection from a qualified Volvo mechanic are very sensible. Do not buy used without a qualified pre-purchase inspection, because Volvos are designed and built with the expectation that basic maintenance will be followed. If you follow the maint schedule, it will last forever (or at least until you're tired of it). If you don't follow the maint schedule, you can't pass Go, you can't collect

200 dollars....

As long as speed/performance is not your main criteria, a well-maintained

240 from 1988 - 1993 (last year) is the best car built for price/performance ever built. (Period). They handle pretty well, and steering/suspension is easily upgraded. Austin has plenty qualified Volvo shops to do it right (and plenty to do it wrong, so do your homework). Comfort is great. If you have some worn out seats,
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can fix you up with new foam and covers. Most basic maintenance you can do yourself, or if you are not a DIY'er, you can find a good Volvo mechanic in Austin other than the dealer who is reasonable.

If you think the 240 is a little too "old-school", then you can walk on the wild side with a 940, which is really a 240 with a nicer looking body and some cosmetic luxury upgrades for a few dollars more, but still from the early '90s vintage. If you really want to swing out with more performance, get a 940-turbo, but pay close attention to that pre-purchase inspection and a solid owner's manual with date-stamped maintenance to make sure the turbo is still in good operation.

If you meet all of these recommendations, you can find a car under $3,000, with less than $1,000 per year (average) maintenance costs, excluding brakes every 3 years or so.

If 20-yr-old Volvos bother you, then I recommend the S60 of their new lineup. I don't know much about the SUVs. The new lineups, understandably, cost a whole lot more to purchase, and you will have to have more work done by the very expensive dealership, because diagnostic technology and specialty tools are cost-prohibitive anywhere else.

A possible compromise is the mid- to late-90's 850 model, but this is much more like the S60 than the 240.

Reply to
Pat Quadlander

So I've noticed.

Friends in one, family in the other. Buying a car in either area would give us an excuse to spend a weekend with folks we don't see all that often.

Buying cars on Ebay? Surely you jest? How would one go about verifying the credentials of the mechanic, let alone ensuring the inspection is done? Does one travel to collect a car with the understanding that if it doesn't pass inspection once one is on the ground to supervise the seller reimburses the (now non-buyer) for airfare? Do I seem skeptical of the whole proposition?

Never have bought a car without an inspection, even a new one. Last new car I didn't buy stayed at the dealer because my mechanic found a major problem with the drivetrain.

Bling is not my thing. Speed is nice I'm after dependability. A car I buy now has to be my daily driver for at least 10 years and preferably longer.

What will I be spending my annual grand on that isn't oil and filters plus routine consumables?

New is out of our budget. Newish would probably be a 2003-2005 V50 T5. There's a sweet '05 wagon in San Antonio right now but it isn't a dealer certified pre-owned. The "buy newish with warranty" camp doesn't like the prospect of dropping $25k on an unwarranted vehicle and I can't say I do either. If I want it I'd better get moving, though...

I don't know much about the SUVs. The new lineups, understandably,

A couple of the certified Volvo places around Austin have UTD codes, or so goes the rumor. And as I said, I trust my mechanic - not only to do correctly the work I ask him to do, but to tell me when he can't.

Thanks for all the solid info!

Reply to
Guy.A.Regular

Getting a qualified pre-purchase inspection on an out of town car will depend on your friend/family in Houston/Dallas (i.e., someone you already trust to line up someone who is already qualified). That's what will make an online (ebay, etc.) purchase very viable. If it doesn't pass a trustworthy inspection, pass on the deal.

Annual regular maint less than $1,000 average includes new timing belt every

60,000, new tires about every 50,000 - 60,000, fuel filter about every 2 - 3 yrs (stinky job you may want mechanic to handle), sparks and wires and rotor and cap, air filter, either learn to clean the throttle body and crankcase screen every 6 months or pay someone. Brake master cylinder around 5 yrs. Air mass meter once or twice over car life. Battery every 3 - 5 yrs. New muffler, catalytic converter around 7 yrs. A water pump maybe sometime (best done at same time as timing belt replacement). New shocks around 7 - 8 yrs., new suspension bushings and steering tie rods and ball joints around 9 - 10 yrs, new A/C compressor and drier/accumulator and refrigerant around 10 yrs., new hoses and belts around 7 yrs. If the original radiator with weak plastic neck has not been replace with a stronger metal neck, this will go for around $300 - $400 with parts,labor, fluid. May or may not need to replace wiring harnesses with crumbling insulation on the wires. I recommend sticking with 1988 or newer models, as I've heard this was improved that year. These are all basis wear and tear items common to just about all cars, but are fairly durable on a Volvo 240 if the car maintenance is being kept up-to-date. $1,000/yr average is very little, over the life of a car after it's 3 yrs old. If you can find another car with less average maint cost than all the above, please post to this frugal group - we are wanting to know.

And, the mother of all repairs on the 240, the $120 interior fan (blows heater air, refrigerated air to the passenger cabin). Experienced repair estimators would rather total the car than pay for this job. It is the worst bonehead design on the whole car for a cheap part replacement. It's easier to get a divorce and marry a new mate but beware you'll need to do it again in about 10 yrs.

well-maintained

price/performance

Reply to
Pat Quadlander

Then a 240 or 740 is right up your alley. Practically run forever and pretty easy to fix yourself. I know of 240s with 350,000+ miles on them. Mine has 175,000 and I figure I'll have it at least another 5 years barring some catastrophic event.

Reply to
Tim McNamara

I know a bunch of people who have bought cars on ebay. When you're spending just a few thousand dollars it's not really a big deal, in this case they were older 240s and all turned out to be pretty much as expected, an old 240 in need of some TLC which turned them into respectable cars for a very reasonable total investment.

Reply to
James Sweet

You know, I've heard this a lot, and granted it's not a simple job, but it's not nearly as hard as some would have you believe. The first one I did took me around 5 hours from start to finish, and that included having to figure out a way to get the rusted nut off the motor shaft. I've got it down to less than 4 hours now and that's without taking the shortcut of cutting holes in the blower housing. It's one heck of a lot easier than replacing the sagging headliner in a 700 sedan, I speak from experience. You just have to pull the dash out (about a dozen screws), pull the console panel out (4 screws and 2 clips), pull the side panels which will now be loose, remove the 4 screws and pull the frame off from the center console, then you can take out the screws and clips to get the side panels off the blower housing and get into the motor. It looks scary but take it one step at a time and put the screws in labelled bags and it should go pretty smoothly.

Reply to
James Sweet

The Ford thing didn't make much of a difference. Each year stands or fails on its own merits. The Ford acquisition of Volvo was in 1999. There are good ones before that and good ones after that.

Here are some good ones:

  • VOLVO 240 '91 & '92 * VOLVO 940 '94 & '95 * VOLVO 850 '95 - '97 * VOLVO S40/V40 '01 - '02 * VOLVO S60 '01-'05 (the 2002, 2005 & 2005 S60 are VERY reliable) * VOLVO S60AWD '04-'05 (the 2004 & 2005 S60(AWD) are VERY reliable) * VOLVO V70 '99-00, '03 (the 1999 & 2000 V70 are VERY reliable) * VOLVO S80 '04 (the 2004 S80 is VERY reliable) * VOLVO S80AWD '04 (the 2004 S80AWD is VERY reliable)

And some bad ones:

  • VOLVO 960 '95-97 * VOLVO V40 '00 * VOLVO V50 '05 * VOLVO S60AWD '03 * VOLVO C70 '00, '04 * VOLVO V70 '01 '02 * Volvo V70XC '98 * VOLVO S80 '99-02 * VOLVO S90/V90 '98 * VOLVO XC90 '03-05

This is based on a large sampling. Individual experiences will vary.

Reply to
Stephen Henning

Ok maybe. I'll grant that it could work, but I remain skeptical. I suppose I'd better do some research.

Different nomenclature and accounting systems. Some of the things you've got classed under "routine" fall under "major" in my system, but that's OK. All the things you list happen to my Fords as well but under different ledger headings.

Yank the dash AND the engine? One of the reasons I'm retiring the current Ford early is an issue with the way one of the two timing belts has to be replaced and the expense associated therewith. And one of the reasons I'm not terribly hip on buying another Ford is the how and why I ended up with with this particular engine that requires such an expensive procedure for what shouldn't be.

Reply to
Guy.A.Regular

What specifically is not good? I have my eye on this very model/year at the moment but I'm willing to be persuaded...

Reply to
Guy.A.Regular

WHO said you have to pull the engine to replace the cabin fan? Slow down, dude. I have replaced two cabin fans and, while it's a PITA, it ain't all that difficult. While I have pulled a 240 engine or two, it was to replace it from one parts car to another. Never did so in order to replace the cabin fan.

Reply to
c.fiedler

Dude, it was a joke along the lines of "easier to get a divorce"...

Reply to
Guy.A.Regular

Hi Steve,

Your very knowledgeable contribution much appreciated , as usual, but.............................................................!

Re your list of "good ones" you include the '91 & '92 240. What's wrong with the '93 240 I've been driving for 14 years?! :-)

Andy I. ( '58 445 wagon; '65 122S wagon; '67 121 2-Door Import; '74 142; '74

145 wagon; '86 245 wagon; '93 245 "Classic" wagon.
Reply to
Andy

I don't believe in divorces either.

Reply to
c.fiedler

Bad is a relative term. Statistically it has not been as good as the average cars of today. That is not to say it is a lemon, but that it is easy to do better. The problems most reported were primarily in the fuel and electrical systems. Much worse than previous years. Fuel systems typically have a 2% problem rate for 2005 and electical systems have a 4% problem rate for 2005. The long term reliability will probably be good, but the problem rate is over twice as high as typical for that year.

Reply to
Stephen Henning

Ok, thanks for the clarification. Still haven't bought anything, mostly because the Other Camp is still fixating on a Big Shiny New Car (with a pricetag to match!).

Reply to
Wooly

No. Ford ownership of Volvo has nothing at all to do with the reliability of their vehicles. Ford bought Volvo Cars in 1998.

A 20 year old car is a 20 year old car is a 20 year old car and no magic can offset the impact of that much wear. My suggestion would be to buy either a very late model low milage car with warranty, or just buy a new one. In either case plan to hold it for 300,000 miles and reap the substantial benefit of spreading the cost of a new car over a lot of driving.

Doing your own maintenance works IF you are willing to do the many checks and parts replacement a Volvo mechanic would do at each scheduled maintenance. Doing nothing but oil changes and door lock lubes and otherwise waiting for something to break before fixing is not a good way to save money.

Reply to
Roadie

The jury is still out on whether Volvos built after the *40 series will be good for 300,000+ miles. I suspect the 8* and S series will mostly be good for the usual 150-200,000 miles expected from a well maintained car.

Reply to
Howard Nelson

There is nothing that I've read that would indicate that a well maintained later model Volvo will not run for 300,000 miles or more. There is nothing mysterious about keeping a car running for hundreds of thousands of miles. Just stay up with all of the maintenance and fix problems as they occur.

Reply to
Roadie

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