Is a Jetta TDI a good car?

I have a 2003 Jetta TDI wagon which I purchased new. I have 42K miles on it at the moment. We also have a Touareg, a Chevy Taho and an older Saab convertible. I sold a 1988 BMW 735i which I loved but it was getting up there in maintenance expense. The Jetta is a blast. I cannot fit two adults in back, but it carries everything. I get around 40 to 45 mpg depending on where I buy the fuel and driving environment. It is quick and maneuverable. I have taken the Jetta when I go skiing, but this year I am considering the Nikko (sp?) tires for winter use. When they finally allow diesel sales in my state again I think that I will look at the Passat diesel. I tried B20; it worked well enough, but my mileage dropped somewhat and there is only one place that sells it around here to which is a pain to drive.

Tom

Focus in on 2003 or earlier. If you want to go higher than 5% biodiesel, you should stay away from the Pump Duesse (sp?) VWs. I believe the PDs started in 2004. They use different injector technology and can possibly cause problems with higher concentrations of biodiesel. Check out the biodiesel forums at the TDI Club and you will find a lot of information on the PDs and biodiesel:

-Bryan

Probably the best candidate for biodiesel is an older non-TDI VW.

Thanks! I'll go check that out. I like this group already. :-)

-jeff

Good car, yes, but buy an extended warranty.

....because?

-jeff

because they are not reliable! I had a 2000 jetta and it started breaking down at 12K miles. The electric seats wouldn't work and the drivers was stuck in full recline for months!!! Then the brake lights went out and the electric lock on the trunk went out...so it would never shut. And numerous other owners I have talked to say the same things...since '93 on, their reliability is really bad. Its a shame because I love VW's too. I was fortunate to be given a 1981 rabbit diesel a few years ago, sold the 2000 Jetta, and never looked back! I get 50mpg out of a $700 car that runs about $200/yr in maintenamce. Seriously! Oh yea, and insurance is $600/yr. I know its not suited for a family, but its the best bang for the buck.

My other car is a Honda Accord wagon, and I love the VW wagons, but they just aren't worth the risk or poor reliability. My '94 Honda wagon was $5k 3 years ago and I put 100K miles on it since then. It has never been to a mechanic for maintenence! Its got 189,000 on the clock! The repair savings of a reliable vehicle far outweighs the fuel savings on an unreliable diesel.

I'm getting kind of tired of people coming on to this post and slamming VWs all the time. I have owned many VWs and worked on cars of many brands. Yes VWs require maitenance, so does every car. Its just a fact of life. I own VWs because they are a blast to drive, and yes I own a turbo diesel made after 1993 (2 actually) and they do cost me money to keep going but they also make my drive to work every day enjoyable. There is lots of stupid engineering on VWs but so is there on every car. So try to give some useful advice instead of just slanderous comments. If you have a bad experience with a VW back it up with facts like "it cost me $750.37 to have my injection pump rebuilt." Here is my evidence in favour of VW diesels, I have a 1994 Golf turbo diesel with 405000kms on it and it gets me back and forth to work every day (60kms one way city and highway) and I get 45mpg to 50mpg. I perform regular maitenance like brakes air and oil filter etc etc. Hasn't let me down and still has amazing power. Engine has never been opened up(Im the second owner.)

My Jetta has been mostly reliable for 9 years and 180k miles and I have no immediate plans to sell it. However, keep in mind that VW's have always had a kind of sliding scale of reliability.

Mission critical systems used in German models (engine, manual transmissions) are highly reliable, atleast as good as the Japs, even bulletproof. Their old 8 valve gas 4 cyl. motor really needed to have enough oil and it would go forever, not even good oil, not even the right oil, just enough oil.

Automatic transmissions, less common with the European models, are less reliable, less of a good idea if you ever tow stuff, and get more recalls. In VW's defense, this may be true of automatic vs. manual transmissions in general.

Electric components (power windows, locks, alarms, pollution control sensor bits that set off the check engine light but wont leave you stranded), seat tilt knobs, interior plastic is not nearly up to Toyota standards. You should expect more plastic trim falling off, electrical gremlins, and many little niggling cosmetic problems as a VW hits 10 years of age. My friends'

On a more charitable note, my TDI has towed 2500lb+ trailers all over the damn place with no complaints, has its original clutch, went to Alaska twice (from Texas), and it is easy to beat the EPA 41/49 mpg of my year. Note - my car was slightly less powerful, lighter and smaller than the current model, hence the better mileage.

Wow. Brutal. Well, this is the kind of feedback I need.

Just to clarify, this is the car my wife really wants, and she's really into Biodiesel, and it's easy to get here in good ol' Eugene Oregon and about the cost of fancy-pants store-bought diesel, or even slightly less. So those, at least, are non-issues. This is the car she was lobbying for when I bought the Land Cruiser.

The picture you paint of a VW's reliability is scary. Confusing. Now I'm not so sure I even want one, after this post.

-jeff

If I may, let me throw in another point of view for balance. If I didn't know anything about VWs, after reading none2u's post, I might be inclined to wonder how VWs are even allowed to be sold in the US. I agree with him that regarding quality assurance, they aren't as good as Toyotas or Hondas. I understand where he is coming from. But, to put it in perspective, I believe VWs are at least as good as (or better than) cars put out by the "big three" US auto makers. This is just my opinion of course. But here is my personal experience:

We have a 2003 Ford Focus Wagon. It only has 40000 miles on it right now. Within the last 1/2 year, we have developed problems with the power windows. At any given point in time, you may or may not be able to roll down/up any of the windows. The back bumper is coming loose (and it has never been in an accident). The front brakes have been replaced not once, but twice rather (new pads, discs, everything) and they are already starting to grind again! All of this and I'm only getting 28 mpg.

In my opinion VW quality is not any worse than what we are getting with this Ford Focus -- and would you believe that the Focus is one of Ford's best selling vehicles. If I had my time to go over, we would have purchased a Jetta wagon.

-Bryan

Oh boy! Another Toyota is the perfect company. Lemme tell you something, they aren't. I recently bought an old MR2. Now, I will admit that all of the things I am about to mention are pre-existing problems, but they are problems nonetheless:

#1) They rust... They rust like crazy. They rust in ways that are truly unimaginable on a Volkswagen. No joke.

#2) When the fuel pump goes bad (which happens if you let the car sit for more than a couple months), you have to drop the fuel tank to replace it. And dropping the tank on this thing is not a one man-operation. It's a two man operation and its a complete PITA.

#3) When you want to go replace the fuel pump, you consult the Toyota FACTORY service manual and read its advice: a) Drain fuel tank (no explanation as to how, and no provision to to do so) b) Remove fuel tank c) Remove fuel pump bracket d) Remove fuel pump (yes, you read that right, its an intank pump with no provision to replace it with the tank in the car, I've never seen VW do such a boneheaded thing).

In order to remove the fuel tank, you have to take off a shield in the back of the car, that has about 5 nuts on it (which would be completely non-obvious if no one told you), remove three shields on the bottom, 6 fuel lines (some of which are in ridiculously contorted places), and then you remove to tank straps and lower it down at an angle. But before you do that, you have to disassemble the center console and remove two electrical connectors (again, not mentioned anywhere in the manual).

So then, I have some questions about the exhaust system, so I go look stuff up in the manual. And yes, you guessed it, there is no mention of the exhaust system anywhere in the manual. Very impressive.

#4) There are tons of parts on the car that basically can't be had anywhere but from Toyota, if you're lucky. And when I say tons of parts, I don't mean parts like headliners, I mean parts like... oh say... tie rods, and yes, just like any other car, they go bad. Oh and when you buy new tie rods, and they cost, say $100/ea, you'll be thinking, why the hell didn't I buy a Porsche, at least their tie rods are only $60/ea.

#5) The headlight switch: apparently every MR2 ever made has bad solder joints on the headlight switch. Oh what a feeling...

If you want to claim that VW has issues thats fine, but so does Toyota, they are just different issues. VW supports its cars way better than Toyota or Honda, especially if you want to work on your own car.

Jeff Olsen wrote: : none2u wrote: : : Wow. Brutal. Well, this is the kind of feedback I need. : : Just to clarify, this is the car my wife really wants, and she's : really into Biodiesel, and it's easy to get here in good ol' Eugene : Oregon and about the cost of fancy-pants store-bought diesel, or even : slightly less. So those, at least, are non-issues. This is the car : she was lobbying for when I bought the Land Cruiser. : : The picture you paint of a VW's reliability is scary. Confusing. : Now I'm not so sure I even want one, after this post. : Dont recommend it....I ditched my 2002 after almost 2 years. The problematic dirty fuel and intake clogging was the last straw. Lotsa little things going wrong with it like rattles and other noises. The car is fun to drive but it's HIGH MAINTENANCE. If you can live with that and the costs both tangible and nontangible, go for it.

I do appreciate the information, just to be clear. At the risk of giving out too much information again, I really CAN'T afford high-end Toyotas, at least not like you might be thinking. The Tundra is my first new car ever, and I had to sell my beloved Jeep and Volvo to get it, and the Land Cruiser is a '95... great SUV, but not the $60k vehicle you might have been thinking about! Paid $13.5k for it, gas was $1.89 a gallon, life was good! Now, at $3.05 and climbing, the Cruiser is killing me and I am looking for some kind of very high MPG vehicle. The biodiesel is a big plus and trust me, I WILL be using it. As far as my wife, well, she's a real sweetie and I'm not worried about the kinds of things you have had trouble with. However, the stuff you are mentioning about how unreliable they are is truly frightening and I thank you for you post. I'm gathering data here. Your post will count as a strong vote against the Jetta TDI. I've had other people, here and elsewhere, tell me they are great cars that don't really have too many problems. At this point, I'm still trying to find "the truth". So, thank you.

-jeff

none2u wrote: Of course, I see, I've pissed somebody off again. I'm not apologizing, This was meant for someone who already owns high end Toyotas, and never had a Vdub, from someone who owns Toyotas and VWs. I cant see anyone with new Toyotas ,accepting the reliability of a VW. Its completely opposite end of the spectrum, and they are both used to their Toyotas already. He can afford high end Toyotas, but buys her a used TDI , possibly just out of warranty with previous owner issues, that might cause her headaches, because he wants her to save gas money. If she felt slighted, don't like the smell of diesel, or has to visit the crappy dealers and pay the bills, and the car has issues. Its going to get ugly. Also typical, he left out relevant information. Now he says, His wife wants one. We wouldn't be here if he said. I want one , She wants one. There's no problem. Get it , Enjoy being slaves together to your new owner. I am not responsible for people who don't post all the information.

Well actually, mine is a 2003. There has only been one recall on my model year and that was last fall for trivial problem with weatherstripping along the back seat doors. Now, perhaps there should be a recall for my brake problem. I don't know if others with the 2003 model year are having those problems or not. 99% of the Focus recalls you mention are only on the 2000 and/or 2001 models. Having said that, I still stick to my opinion that VW is better than the GM, Ford, and Chrysler. Also, this Focus is just one example. I also think that VWs are better than the Buick and the Oldsmobile I have also owned.

You must have me confused with somebody else. You didn't piss me off. In fact, I stated in my previous post on this issue that I understood what you were saying and that I agreed with you regarding VW vs. Toyota. If the original poster is deadset on Toyota quality, then he probably won't get a VW. However, if he is quite comfortable with the quality of autos produced by the "Big Three", then I believe he will be fine with a VW. Besides, it all comes down to what he values most. I run high concentrations of biodiesel in my VW, just as the original poster mentioned that he is interested in doing. And I plan on doing that in my next car also. And in the US, if you want a diesel passenger car, VW is essentially the only game in town. Cheers, Bryan