Re: VW seems to have lost it's way in the US

Amen! Volkswagen... the people's car... uhumm *clears throat* the rich people's car.

My next car is going to be an Audi, these VW's are poorly built in my opinion. great cars they are though.

I've been screaming over the same issues for some time. VW obviously has little to no grasp on what the American consumer is looking for, and they're waiting entirely to long to get new models to the North American market. The new Passat should've been developed and ready to go back in early 2003 so that it's release could coincide with the releases of the new Accord and Galant as well as updated versions of the Camry. The new GTi is slated to have 200Hp and will probably start over $20k while the 230Hp Neon SRT-4 can scream to 60 in 5.3 seconds for just under the $20k mark. And have they forgotten about the WRX? Say goodbye to VW of America folks, it's going bye-bye!

little to no grasp on what the American consumer is looking for

The Jetta has been popular for ages and the current Passat has been a huge success here. They have at least some idea.

Not necessarily. Their model cycle isn't any longer than other German car makers'.

However it does seem like most new models debut overseas first a year earlier. Why the delay of a year I don't know but it's been that way for ages.

No...which is why the R32 is here. However the lack of a 5-door model I don't understand (Europe has them).

Hardly. VWoA might never be the import leader but I doubt they're going away anytime soon.

little to no grasp on what the American consumer is looking for

The Jetta has been popular for ages and the current Passat has been a huge success here. They have at least some idea.

Not necessarily. Their model cycle isn't any longer than other German car makers'.

However it does seem like most new models debut overseas first a year earlier. Why the delay of a year I don't know but it's been that way for ages.

No...which is why the R32 is here. However the lack of a 5-door model I don't understand (Europe has them).

Hardly. VWoA might never be the import leader but I doubt they're going away anytime soon.

Outsold by the Civic and Focus, among others.

Outsold by the Camry and Accord.

Ok, if you say so.

This isn't really the point. VW is holding off much needed replacements while the big boys are letting loose with new cars. If they have to cut production cycles shorter than normal in order to keep up, so be it.

The R32 competes with the WRX STi, and has a post-$30k price tag. I'm talking about something under $24k with AWD and a sub-6 second 0-60 time.

They're losing market share and seem not to care.

I can tell you haven't actually _driven_ these cars. The SRT-4 is cheaply built and might outlast the payment book. Every review I've seen of the Subaru comments on the cheapo interior. If all you want is a rocket engine with enough other bits to call it a car, fine. But that's not what VW is selling.

sd

Hmm... What is VW selling then? Long-lasting reliable tank? Mexican-built luxurious interior with flimsy plastic that falls apart? Creeking wind-noise from door when driving on highway? Maybe defective windows regulator? That's cheaply made.

Ernest

Gee, I dunno - that certainly isn't what they sold *me*.

-- Mike Smith

Only in magazines. The STi is in a different class, and spanks the R32 in performance. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the R32, but it's not in the same class as the STi (not that that's a bad thing).

I did say something to the effect that that VW isn't and probably wouldn't be the top import car brand. I did not claim that the Jetta and Passat were

*the most* popular cars in their classes. I said they did quite well.

And just because the Jetta and Passat aren't #1 in sales volume doesn't mean they're at the bottom of their class either and it doesn't mean that VWoA doesn't know what the US wants.

Yes and no. Recall the previous generation Camry appeared for the '97 model year, so therefore it's somewhat expected for its replacement to arrive sooner than a Passat replacement.

I do agree that I don't understand why cars like the Golf V are out in Europe but yet won't arrive here for another year...VW does seem to do that quite a bit.

I've driven both, thanks. Your post seems to be based entirely on magazine reviews though.

It's the muscle car mentality. It worked in the 1960s and it's starting to work again, with a slightly new face. Young buyers want inexpensive cars with great performance, and VW isn't offering it. And I'm saying this as the owner of a

2002 GTi 1.8T which I quite like, but which I can tell you won't match the rawness of an RSX Type S or the overall bang:buck ratio of the SRT-4. While the Neon is certainly cheap, it also comes with a stealler warranty and nice list of standard equipment. And the MOPAR division is stepping up with factory-made, factory warrantied performance parts. All in a car with a sub-$20k price tag. I hate Chrysler, and would normally never get within 50 feet of whatever their making but the SRT-4 is a tempting bargin.

True, but it's a step up from the Neon and is of generally good build quality. Add to that AWD and great performance, a highly tunable engine and ever-growing aftermarket support and a price tag only marginally higher than my GTi's and you have a winning combo. The cheapo interior managed to put me off enough to make me *not* want a WRX (and I didn't anticipate that it would catch on the way it did) but most buyers will leapfrog VW and go straight to Subaru if given the choice between the two.

No, VW is selling high quality and reasonable performance. Unfortunately, what the market is asking for at the moment are SUVs and performance-compacts with sub-6 second 0-60 times and sub-$24k price tags.

Only in 0-60 and 1/4th tests. The R32 has a superior suspension and with a tire upgrade (VW's choice of tires for that car was subpar) it'll outrun the STi on a track. You can see the joint VWVortex/SUBDriven test for proof as such.

Again, if VW needs to cut back model-life cycles in order to get new models out at the same time as new models from copetitive companies, then they need to do so. There's no excuse for Honda to has a 240Hp Accord out while VW is languishing with the 190Hp Passat V6. You'd have to buy a $40k W8 to outpace the $24k Accord.

Can't argue with that. But VW certainly is entitled to sell what they want to sell, and people either will buy or not. Around here, you pretty much can't fling a dead cat without hitting either a Jetta or a Passat. So, for this neighborhood and environs, they're doing something right. I'm not sure I'd count that as "VW losing its way."

Before I bought my Jetta TDI, I test-drove a Ford Contour V6. That car was a blast to drive. But I could tell from poking around it that it would not be fun to have to repair after a few years. I bought the VW. Obviously I'm not in the gunsights of the SRT-4/WRX market.

sd

A curious pairing of cars, there. Why not a Jetta w/VR6 to compare against the Contour V6?

-- Mike Smith

I've been in both cars... and unless you reall press the Accord hard, and get way into its RPM band to get the VTEC to start really kicking in, there isn't a huge difference... Yah, in a race the Accord would win, but the Passat has MORE then enough guts to keep up, remember the Accord only has

216lb-ft of torque, and the spectrum for its torque output isn't as good as the Passats... You're driving with a more flexible engine with a VW, which is a very good thing, at least where I am living (lots of hills in the country, and traffic in the city...)

I'm pretty sure VW will release more power with the new Passat, but remember it came out later then the Camry/Accord it fought against... VW doesn't synchronize their launches with the competition... so, big deal, it would be boring if cars were launched every 5 years, from all brands... compact one year, sedan the next, sports car the year after... and such.

There is this thing called economics. A new car costs a bunch of money design and produce. If they gain a few cars in increased sales but do not offset the production costs they make less money. Their goal is to make as much money as possible for the stockholders. A year longer manufacturing cycle might be boring to you but may maximize their profits. If you want ultimates, purchase cars from manufacturers that have that in their mission statement. Porsche and Ferrari have that mentality.

You don't need 240 hp in a small car. You want. I want too but not really. I rarely drove my GTI hard enough to use its power. The TDI has enough power for the way I drive. It spins it tires if I push it hard. Of course as soon as it stops spinning there is not much more acceleration even with a gear change but who's in a rush? Traffic jam

5 miles up the road anyway.

snipped-for-privacy@aol.com (Steve Grauman) wrote:

Jim B.