I wasn't aware that either of those allowed one to control "the amount, timing and graduation of torque applied to the drive train." In other words, complete control of engine speed and timing and the "bite" of the clutch. You live and learn, I guess.
Sorry, Jack. I thought it was clear I was replying to "admin", but I should have cut your name as well to avoid any confusion.
Tom K.
They give you complete control of what arrives at the wheels, which is really all that matters...
A
Gah - how many times... All this carping of the supposed 'superiority' of manual shifting is a moot point anyway. Already, some BMW models are not available with conventional manuals any more, only with automatics or SMG.
Expect this trend to continue as BMW catches up with VW/Audi (and now Porsche) on double-clutch (so-called "DSG") gearboxes.
As is evident, more and more people prefer some kind of automatic shifting concept over conventional manual (I suppose mainly due to increasing traffic congestion).
Let's not forget - the people who can afford to buy/lease BMW are usually located in/around the world's chocked urban centres, as this is where the high-paying jobs are.
We must accept, then, that your definition of 'complete control' is different from mine :-)
So you're predicting the imminent demise of the conventional gearbox?
And why is one side of this debate 'carping,' yet your *opinion* is not? :-)
The 'carping' doesn't refer to this thread in particular, just to the general obsession with proving that only "real" enthusiasts prefer manuals (conveniently ignoring the fact that autos, and especially SMG & DSGs do have advantages over manual shifting in both shift times and guaranteed shift precision).
Anyway, I'm not saying the demise of the conventional gearbox is imminent, but that the trend is heading that way, sure.
I can imagine that, in a decade or so, DSG or SMG will the standard/free, and a 'manual' gearbox will be an optional extra. More than anything else, this will be decided by marketing and production sourcing & efficiency criteria, Gotta keep them shareholders happy. =)
E46 M3 - it's like shifting in a truck
Well the "SMG" isn't a sequential box - it's a regular box with a computer controlled change gear on the outside. I would prefer BMWs SMG if there was also a clutch pedal so one could clutch and de-clutch however you wanted (if you wanted) but the actual gearchange was done by computers.
I have not driven that model before. What specifically do you not like about the shifting? "Like a truck" is not very descriptive... Is it notchy? Hard to get from 2nd to 3rd in a hurry? Clutch engagement problems? What?
Also, have you done anything yet to try and rectify the problem? Tried using synthetic gear lube (as others have recomended)? Removed the CDV?
That's kind of getting to my point, which is about the manner in which you can operate the clutch. I don't mind a gearbox that automatically changes what gear it's in when I tell it to, it's more that I want to control how and when the clutch gets done.
Why? Maybe because they are every advanced in their technology. Plus tariffs and all that mumbo jumbo.
yourself or for your family including a dog?
more maintenance. But having the regular maintenance will be good (you get that automatically with every new BMW) so you'll be OK. You don't have to take your Japanese cars to get any "regular maintenance."
Pro's and con's of going
and I live in California but I don't mind shifting. Automatics will be heavier and some people that drive them say that they are not as quick. I will tend to agree. Plus, the stick is more economical. When the 2002s Ci models came out there was an issue (a recall) with the 325ci and 330ci because they had problems with their weather stripping on the doors. it was a bad design and the weather stripping kept coming off. They finally got it right after the 2002 model, so you will be okay if you get a coupe of sometime. The 3 series sedan did not have this problem. You will be blessed if you get a car that does not have any problems at the beginning. My brother has a 330i sedan and only has an intermittent problem with one of the fog lights. The dealer has looked at it, but they never see anything wrong.
Good luck.
Ace, you have it exactly wrong. Some BMW automatics are GM sourced, no manuals are. Now, that is not a bad thing as GM makes excellent automatics and have a much longer history doing it than anybody else.
They did - but are they at the forefront now? The first ZF 5 speeder was fitted to the E34 in '91 - it was 10 years or so till the GM in the US E39 became 5 speed. Now 6, 7 and 8 speed boxes are fitted to M-B and BMW.
Actually, I could care less. I just threw it out there for all the chest pounding, real men only drive manuals, crowd.
Deja moo: the feeling that I've heard this bullshit before.
Thanks for all the great feedback. After reviewing the messages here and research on the web, it appears that if I want to buy a the best (performance / comfort)used convertable the model to go with is the
330ci with sport package & SMG? Comments? Any thoughts on difference between buying 2001-2005. Are there years significantly better then others?
Just as long as (yet once again) you realise that you won't be getting the full M-model SMG, but a cut-down 'economy' version. You'd probably be better off with the Steptronic.
That's exactly the car I want (330 sport w/ hardtop and SMG).
SMGs *do* exist on 330's, but they're rare. I suspect I'll have to settle for a manual tranny, which is hard enough to find on a 330. I think over 90% of 330's have autos, while maybe 2% have SMGs.
I've looked *very* closely at M3s, but the reasons I prefer a 330 are:
1) I own an e36 M3 now, and the suspension is just too damned stiff for urban driving. If I lived out in the burbs where pavement is smoother, maybe. But in the busted asphalt of the city, a softer suspension is unquestionably easier to live with. 2) Mileage will be better on the 330. 3) Insurance will cost less on the 330. 4) The 0-60 times for the 330 are only 1 second slower than the M3 (6.2 vs 5.2, respectively). 5) A used e46 M3 costs about $15 thousand MORE than a used 330.IMHO, the only attraction of the M3 is the greater likelihood of finding an SMG. But paying $15k more just for a SMG is nuts.
Randy
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