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That is because he is still a Democrat but the fact remains the same that even though he is a Democrat and loyal to his party, he will still vote against the party line if he feels it is important. As for independents, most of them tend to lean toward the left in many ways and yet have conservative values as well.
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TBone wrote:

He stated he would caucus with the Democrats. Yes he did go against his party. He has been a strong supporter of the Iraq war. So why are you defending him?
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that
LOL, he is actually not a strong supporter. He simply understands that we are stuck there until we can come up with a valid exit plan and setting a time limit without one is a stupid idea. I agree with that completely. We were sent their by a retard and it will take a genus to get us out of there intact.
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TBone wrote:

Can't afford? Tax revenues have increased, not decreased. Your claims about tax amnesty and better collection techniques are not substantiated. What is substantiated is the higher cash flow.
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If at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving
"miles" < snipped-for-privacy@nopers.com> wrote in message
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> > TBone wrote:
>they were due to >the recent amnesty and crackdown on tax cheaters.
Bull. Thats not sustainable for 6 years. Tax receipts have skyrocketed because of a higher cash flow throughout the economy.
>Funny how they made the news then. A very short lived liberal commentary that you picked up on. It has not been substantiated.
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I can't believe you two are still at it!! <GBMFG>
Roy

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And you have been here how long :-)
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"Roy" < snipped-for-privacy@home.net> wrote in message
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And Kerry, who is a millionaire in his own right, is married to big business... literally.
Again, a wash out.
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Gee, and why doesn't every one do that???? Perhaps because those in power like to keep it that way and it's really not what you know, it's who you know. As for my greed, more right wing spin. When you can explain to us how anyone is capable of actually working hard enought to earn over $1,000,000 dollars, then you can say that. Otherwise, they are simply taking it and it really isn't theirs either.

I
Really, it did in the past. Like I have said many times, you really need to crack open a history book. Here is another thing about history Miles, it tends to repeat itself.

I never said that but what you are doing is simply blowing smoke. The only way that a tax cut can raise revenue in taxes is if they cause the creation of high paying jobs to increase the tax base but that has simply not happened and the type of tax cuts the idiot brought out does the opposite. Most of the new job being created are either low paying retail jobs or lower paying versions of the jobs lost.

I do understand it Miles as do many and most are no longer falling for your right wing spin anymore. Despite the crap of record low unemployment and a great economy, many are not living as well as they were before and most are getting tired of it. The sad thing is that the economic numbers are good so who is getting all of the money? Why, the ones who need it the least, just like with the tax cuts.

Probably not now but if they take a lesson from their right wing friends, they will blame everything that they didn't do on the right and push for more power. If the right manages to deadlock congress as I'm sure they will try, they will be hurting themselves and will probably lead to a Democratic President and a further loss of seats in congress so more power to them.

Now that depends on how liberal you are talking about. The far left, of course not but people are tired of getting screwed by corrupt business owners and employers. The economy was the number 1 issue, even outweighing the war and if the economy is doing as well as the right claims, what does that tell you about what the people want. Sorry Miles, but what's left of the middle class and the poor hugely out number the wealthy and now with the lower class being filled with people who once had things, it leads to strong motivation for change.

Probably so for the far left ideas but if you think differently, name a few. Funny how Arizona killed making gay marriage unconstitutional. I would say that happened because that law would also make unions also illegal so the public is not as far right as you would like.

Maybe they do, maybe they don't but it is more than obvious that the right doesn't either and they had 12 years to get it right and failed. Stay the course puts a bad taste in peoples mouths anymore and that includes the current course of the economy.
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TBone wrote:

Oh geez, typical liberal. Always blame their problems on someone else. If you wanted something bad enough and had the abilities you'd have it instead of whining and wanting something that belongs to someone else.

If it's so easy then go do it yourself instead of whining. Most wealthy people I know worked their way from the bottom. They spent many years living a rather poor life and putting everything they have into it to get where they are today. Most people are not willing to do that or they're a liberal and blame others for their own failures.

When has raising taxes in a down economy created growth and prosperity?

Complete bull. Lower taxes puts more money into the hands of the people. The current tax revenues have skyrocketed over your idol Clintons years. It is because consumer and corporate spending has increased. Look at the figures, the tax revenue increases match the rate of money changing hands almost exact contrary to your warped explanations.

Crap? Low unemployment is crap? The figures today are computed exactly the same way they always have. So if they are bad today then things really sucked under Clinton. The median income has gone up. That means the new jobs are not low paying as your liberal BS propaganda tries to claim without any proof otherwise.

Got proof people are living worse? Funny how people can afford more expensive houses if they are doing so poorly.

You're talking about Prop. 107. You need to read Arizona's constitution. It already does ban gay marriage. Failure of 107 doesn't change that fact at all. Gay marriage is constitutionally banned in Arizona.
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power
LOL, who said it was a problem of mine and spin as you may, many problems are caused by others.

Hahahaha, more complete right wing crap.

As I said before, it's not what you know but who you know or in your case, how many people you are willing to screw and this still doesn't answer the question above.

Why do you keep hiding behind this small business bullshit and most of them are well off, not wealthy. I am talking about the corporate execs making in excess of millions a year with no risk of losing everything which is something else you like to hide behind.

LOL, who is talking about just rising taxes. I am talking about the rules and regulations and they did create growth and prosperity and spread it out to the masses, not just the select few as you would have. Did you open that history book yet?

only
creation
Yes, most of your argument is just that.

Again, more complete right wing bull. Flat tax cuts are hugly expensive and put the most money in the hands of those that need it the least and are the least likely to spend it as they already have and take far more money than they spend. Doing this actually takes more money out of circulation which hurts the economy.

I have still not seen a single number, just the typical right wing crap.When I see a full breakdown as to exactly where all of these revenues are comming from then I will believe it but that will not happen until next year at best when the democrats do their part in the new make the other guy look bad game that our gubberment has become.

Lets see a link to these figures and a breakdown as to where they are comming from.

And for the most part, they were crap then too. The worse the economy is, the more inaccurate they are due to assumptions made in their calculations regardless of who is President.

More right wing spin. More people were doing well under Clinton then at any time in this countries history.

Complete crap. Please show some proof and not the right wing crap that you did the last time which was based on total household income of up to 4 people, including children.

LOL!!!! Let me get out the soap box and give you an example that shows you to be full of shit. We have one of these families of 4 from the median income crap that you posted and in this classic family, only the father was working in the tech industry making $60,000 a year while the mothers job is taking care of the household and their 2 young children. Now in your great economy, the father loses his job due to outsourcing. He manages to find another one a few months later but the due to the high real number of the unemployed, especially in his industry, the best that he could do salary wise is $40,000 because after all, the market value for his skills are now lower. Now I know that you will be screaming that the unemployment figures are low so this example is invalid but again, that is complete bullshit. Unemployment numbers are based on the number of people filing for unemployment insurance and not everyone can. Then on top of that, after your unemployment insurance runs out, you are considered to no longer be looking for work and are removed from that figure. When the job losses are massive, a person could easily exceed his unemployment insurance without finding work that can support his family. Like I said, when the economy is good this can be a somewhat valid assumption but when we have massive job losses like in the beginning of Bush's first term, it is completely invalid which makes these figures complete crap. Now lets get back to the example. This loss of 20 thousand a year makes it impossible for this family to make ends meet so rather than lose their home, the wife gets a job as well. The problem there is that she has been out of the job market for years and with the large number of unemployed skilled workers, the best she can do is $25,000. And on top of that, now she needs limited day car that costs the family $$$$ and severely limits their time together. Now according to your bullshit right wing example, the median income of this family has gone up but in reality, the disposable cash for this family is less than before due to new expenses such as daycare and the median income of the individual people in that family has also gone down and by a large amount. Until you can present valid data showing INDIVIDUAL income higher, all you got is smoke and mirrors, IOW, the right wing method. Now I can put my soap box away.

God, the right wing snow storm ever end. Did you see the stock market yesterday??? Do you know why it fell like a rock? How about a sharp decline in the consumer index. People in this country typically live above their means and with the past housing boom, they were living off of the increasing value of their homes. Now that the bubble has burst and prices are falling, people are realizing that they don't have the money that they thought that they had and are cutting back. If people were buying based on their income, there would be no decrease in the index. Actually, it should increase sharply this time of year.

And who exactly is buying these expensive homes? Most of them were being bought by investers sight unseen on the net and resold to other investors also on the net and for huge profits. Sound familiar to you.... like a certian tech bubble. If people are doing as well as you claim, why have home sales flattened out for the past 8 months and why are prices actually dropping? Sorry Miles, once again your right wing spin has no traction.

few.
say
the
You make no sense Miles. If it is already constitutionally banned, why was it part of 107?
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TBone wrote:

Huh? I'm not the one who says we need to have wage limits. That would be you.

There should not be a ceiling cap on what someones salary can be. Your desire to gain access to someone elses wealth is pure greed. You want something that is not yours.

The wealthy aleady do pay the most but it's not enough for you. They're still rich so you feel the need to take some more. You refuse to set a maximum tax limit. They sky is the limit when it comes to tax rates.

Paying people more that their skills demand will not increase buying power for them. Thats a concept you just can't seem to understand.
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anyone
That is not what I asked but I can see how your bias can cloud the question for you. Let me rephrase it for you. How is someone able to MAKE over 1,000,000 a year and don't give me that investment bullshit because the fact is they can't. They simply pay themselves that much because they can since they are the ones that set their own market value which equates to nothing more than taking.

you
of
I didn't say that there should but if they are willing to take an excessive amount from others, then they should be prepared to pay whatever is needed to keep society functional.

More spin and BS. I have no desire to gain access to someone elses wealth but if people like yourself continue to have no self control and take as much as possible, then you should be prepared to pay for it.

And how exactly did it become theirs??? Oh yea, because the took it since you have yet to explain how they could have possibly earned it.

You are correct because even though they pay more, they don't pay anywhere near the percentage that they take.

set a

And how is that any different from your sky is the limit on how much they can take?

accordingly.
More smoke and mirrors. Who exactly decides what any skill is worth? Oh yea, the ones taking the most for themselves. I still find it funny that you can't justify the price that they put on their own skills. But you are correct, as long as those on the top remain as greedy as they currently are, not much will change. That is untill the gubberment gets involved again and it will do it because it will be forced to by the population. I really think that you need to crack open a hostory book Miles. Look up the industrial revolution..

I can understand it Miles and so do you. That is why you are so desperate to shut me up.
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TBone wrote:

Your jealousy is noted. Their abilities got them there. You can do the same if you had the intelligence to do so. What right do you have to set any limit to what a person in this country can earn?

They already do pay far more than their fair share. How much is enough TBone? When they aren't wealthy any more? What rate is enough to you? You refuse to set any limit of how much you'll punish someone for making more than a magical amount you define as 'enough'.

Bull. You sure do. You are jealous of what they have and want to tax them higher with no limits to how much they should be taxed.

The wealthy already pay by far the most but you want more than that with no limits.

So what tax rate is enough for you? 40%? 50%? 80%? How much is enough TBone?

There should not be a limit to how much ones abilities can earn them.
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If the Fed would only spend on the things which the Constitution empowers, then we'd have a lot less discussion of who to tax. Cause we'd have a lot less Federal revenue needs.
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Christopher A. Young
You can't shout down a troll.
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You're going to use Fox News as a source? Kind of reminds me of Pravda.

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No, that would be CNN.
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Budd Cochran

John 3:16-17, Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 3:23, 6:23
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wrote:

You post s statement like that and can't understand why everyone thinks you're an idiot?
beekeep
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