He's baaaaaaaaaaaaaack!

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Budd Cochran wrote:


Okay ... bye Budd.
Fishing tip for ya: You shouldn't need any bait. Try the same BS with the fish that you did in this ng. I bet the fish will jump into the boat begging to be killed and eatin.
Craig C.
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Yep... saw a bunch of cases pertaining to state governments, local governments, state and federal agencies, etc. being sued for 1A violations. Nothing on individuals.

A search of their site turned up zero hits for "usenet", "newsgroup", "online forum", etc.

No, Budd - it does not. The 1st amendment prohibits CONGRESS from passing any laws infringing on your right to speech, religion, assembly, etc. There is nothing in the BoR that applies to Craig, me, or anyone else from telling you to stop talking about your beliefs.

Nope - you're the one who made the claim - you should be the one to defend it. Again, where's the law that prevents Craig from calling you a "religious nut", and to "take your religious talk to an appropriate newsgroup"?

Yes, true. Usenet is simply the electronic equivalent of the town square. People are free to wander in and out at will - to listen, to ignore, to rebut, or to comment.

You implied (some would say threatened) that you could have someone charged with a federal crime for posts they made to you in this group. I never said that.... you did.

Of course you can... not "by law" - by virtue of the fact that no one, other than your ISP, can stop you. You're free to post all you want. Others are just as free to tell you to go away. Such is the nature of Usenet.
Now, if you ISP blocked your posts, THEN you'd have a case. But because other posters here have no authority over you, or control of your posts, then they can't be in a position to deny you your rights, can they?

Our discussion here has nothing to do with religion. You made an error in your legal reasoning (by stating you could charge Craig with a federal crime for his post to you), and I'm simply trying to correct that by providing the truth. Isn't that exactly what you say you try and do? Correct people's misconceptions?
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A person can deny another his rights.

The response I got was in an email to me. I think I may still have it on a cd. I'll look later.

So, iow, a vigilante group or person, with no official sanction can destroy a house of worship and not be prosecuted? Or persecute a Jewish person, a Catholic?
Then all the trials against the KKK burning Black churches, harrassing Jews and Catholics should be nulled and retribution made.
Because I'm a Christian, I'm harrassed and called names, and I wouldn't be surprised to find there is at least one person that would want to beat me up for my beliefs.

What laws were the KKK members tried under, Tom? What they're doing is no different.

Or to harrass, Tom? According to you, I should be allowed to harangue them about becoming Christians, but we both know what happens when I simply quote a scripture. So much for equality, my friend. Usenet isn't as free as you imagine.

Yep, the same Federal laws as were applied to the KKK.

Interesting, isn't though, that when I post a Christian item no one is called a name, cussed or cursed, but when some reply, it's nothing but cussing, cursing and name calling. Emotional injury is as prosecutable as physical injury.

I think you should be telling them this as I already know it, and they either don't know or don't care.

Then what subject are you talking about? I'm taliking about my freedom to worship, to believe and to live my faith in peace.

Tom, I appreciate your effort, but I went thru worse than Craig or any in here in another group. That was why I contacted the Christian legal services. Yes, they are violating my rights on a personal level. The right to be insulted is a personal level item, as is the right to live, worship and believe in peace. And to deny a person the right to believe is always a Federal violation.
Thanks for the discussion, my friend, but I would suggest you ask the ACLJ a question about usenet harrassment as I did. Then you will get the straight info from them. They will answer questions for anyone, including Atheists, unlike the ACLU.
I gotta go clean a mess of Rainbows today.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com


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Arson... vandalism... willful destruction of property.... tresspass... hate crime... plenty of choices to prosecute under. A civil rights claim could most probably be made in those circumstances, as well. But surely you're not comparing Craig's words to you in this newsgroup to a firebombing of a church???

If I constantly interjected myself into the conversations of others, telling them how wonderful I thought vegetarianism was, over and over and over again.... and someone finally told me to shove my celery stalks up my ass, I should feel discriminated against for being a vegetarian?
As I see it, you're not "harrassed" (I quote that, because I don't believe it has risen to the level of harrassment) or called names simply because you're a Christian. I think people get exasperated with WHAT THEY PERCEIVE to be someone preaching to them.... there's a big difference there.

Again, you compare the burning of a cross on someone's lawn, and the lynching of someone in their backyard, to someone on an Internet newsgroup telling you to shut up.
I'm sorry, Budd.... your logic is severely warped here.

If you truly believe that, quote the section of the United States Code that covers, SPECIFICALLY, someone in this newsgroup posting a message inviting you to "shut up". Don't give me this, "it's the same thing the KKK members were prosecuted for"... I want title, chapter, and verse.

I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT ANOTHER GROUP!!!! For all I know, someone in another group made threats against you... something that COULD be a criminal act. All I can speak to is what I've observed here. Craig said, "Budd, shut up!" and you threatened to have him charged in a federal court. That's nothing short of ludicrous.
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How about it's a hate crime, based on the words used in public forum? Obviously, he hates what I represent, Christians.

Tom, I hope you're not accusing me of forcing my beliefs into conversations that have no religious content. I don't understand how correcting an error is forcing my way into the conversation and I've only done that a couple times when there was a misquote or mis interpretation..
Again, no one has actually proved I did what you said, force my way into a non-religious conversation. Stop and think, Tom, the whole thing started some time back when I commented during an argument with T-bone and theguy on my beliefs because I apologized for using language I do not want to use, and they began the attacks. And it really hasn't let up, whether I mention my beliefs in a post or not, someone drags it in or causes me to try and correct a possibly deliberatly wrong quote or misconception by themselves, just to drag it out, knowing I believe I must corect errors.
It's a hate crime and they are just bullies.

Now you hit the nail on the head. It's what people, in their bias, PERCIEVE as happening, and then refusing to admit they went overboard much more than they claim I have.

Why not? A hate crime is a hate crime.

Is it? Crimes of hate take many forms. There are more ways to hurt people than most people realize.

No one where you live has ever been arrested, tried and convicted of stalking, spousal abuse, harrassment, or assault/battery/maiming/murder on a person of an ethnic group, religion or sexual persuasion?
I keep trying to drop this mess, but . . . .well, you look up the laws on hate crimes, etc. I just want this whole mess to end. I just want to believe in my God as I understand I should.

All that I said was an admission that others had been far more brutal than those in this group. Relax, Tom, it was a compliment of sorts for the folks in this group.

Then you apparently don't see my point for some reason. So be it. I'm done discussing this.
Budd
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com


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No... a "hate crime" is a crime first, motivated by hate. Even if he hates what you represent, there was no underlying crime committed - therefore no "hate crime". Burning a building is a crime (arson) - therefore, burning down a church because someone "hates Christians" could be classified as a hate crime. Telling you to "shut up" in a newsgroup isn't a crime.

So you really see no difference between someone posting here, "Hey Budd - back off with the religious sermons" and cold-blooded murder? Amazing...

Was it also a compliment when you insinuated (I hesitate to use the word 'threaten') that you could have someone up on federal charges for telling you to shut up? See, that's my whole problem here, Budd. I have no problem with anything else you posted - none of it. Granted, I found myself getting a little exasperated at times with some of the debates that started out on some other subject, and morphed into a sermon on Christianity (disavow it all you like - that's how a lot of it came across), but I simply hit the <DELETE> key, and moved on. But when someone starts throwing around statements about "I'll sue you", "I'll have you arrested", etc. - for something that doesn't even come CLOSE to rising to the level of a crime... I gotta admit, it gets under my skin a little.

Nope - I obviously don't. We'll agree to disagree on this.
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On Fri, 15 Sep 2006 03:30:43 GMT, "Tom Lawrence"

beekeep
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wrote:

That was funny.<GBFG>
Roy

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yeah, it really was.

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I'm sure that there is somthing wrong with us finding humor in it but wtf...
Roy
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There is, it's called "religious persecution". Look it up.
--
Budd Cochran

John 3:16-17, Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 3:23, 6:23
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Personally, I always thought that might have been reported to the SPCA as cruelty to lions.. Mac
https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis/wood_stuff.htm
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Do Christians taste that bad?
beekeep
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On Tue, 19 Sep 2006 21:09:48 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@radix.net (beekeep) wrote:

But a few ladies came to mind and I guess I have to say that in my experience Christians taste pretty good..
Mac
https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis/wood_stuff.htm
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wrote:

wow. you and greg are getting in some funny stuff recently.

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On Wed, 20 Sep 2006 14:30:00 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@whatever.net wrote:

well, it's a tough job, but someone has to do it.. *g*
At least you didn't say that we were "getting our licks in"..
Mac
https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis/wood_stuff.htm
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wrote:

considering options, but what the hell:
If someone tells me that I'm ann asshole because I argue religion, they're telling me WHY they think I'm an asshole...
If someone comes into my place of worship and tells me that I can't practice my beliefs, they're getting into a religious issue and MIGHT be guilty of persecution..
For an example, if someone tells you that you shouldn't talk about your Cushman Scooter in a Dodge group, I don't think you'd have much of a case for scooter persecution...
Mac
https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis/wood_stuff.htm
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thought then by pure linkage it is persecution. 'Cmon bro, ya gotta think like'em. Now, I don't know what that says for my mental state but... <BFG>
Roy

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Mac,
We've discussed things before and without animosity. Of that I am proud and I hope we will always be friends. We've even shared a few common interests besides Dodges.
I am trying to let this thread die because I'd rather discuss Dodges anyway.
But do look up what "persecution" entails. It comes in many forms, and as with insults, is generally determined by the recipient, not the speaker/writer, unless the objective of the statement is a deliberate and obvious insult / persecution.
I was raised and schooled to understand that calling someone a name is a deliberate act of intended insult or persecution and is where the writer exceeds his right to freedom of speech.
Budd


--
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Budd Cochran wrote:

No thanks. I don't have time for fiction.

You hear what you want to hear and you certainly put words in people's mouths.

Prayer belongs at home and in church. I certainly don't want religious freaks like you swaying my (step) childs mind.

If you have studied in any of the sciences, especially the natural sciences, as I have, you will know that *nothing* is taught as fact. Everything is merely a theory/hypothesis that is tested and retested. I don't expect you to understand or agree ... or take my word for it. However, I am pursuing a natural science degree currently and I can assure you that the word "FACT" is never mentioned when discussing evolution or creation.

I've never met a "man" that got his feelings hurt as easily as you. In fact, I've never met a woman that got her feelings hurt as easily as you. Only toddlers and chihuahuas.

What was I thinking? You're absolutely correct ... christians don't have to be reasonable. It's a membership benefit. You get to act a fool anytime you want.

I'm shaking in my boots.
One good thing has come from your senile rants: I stopped using google groups (no killfile capability). Now, I use XanaNews. You are now in the "BozoBin". PLLLLOOONNK.
Craig C.
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