Now how bout that for honda's "high" quality control process.
I expect this from the big three. Honda has really let me down :P
One site said the SAE Standards are between -1 and +4%. Is this really
true? I wouldn't want to be the guy driving 60 in a 50 and really be
going 4% faster...
What are the SAE standards on odometers. My POS Ranger is out 5%, has
been since new... Spring time this ranger is getting the boot, what
with its 3.0L 5spd and 13MPG and all. Not sure what kind of brain wave
i had when i acquired this thing.
Hm Didn't you know, all speedometers are inaccurate. Its noy Honda's
fault not Fords not anyones.
The tolerance is usually 10 % either 10 percent down or 10 percent up on
real speed . Its to do with tyres, mechanical limitations etc.
So when you get booked, you don't really know what speed you're doing,
and neither do the speed camera people as they are not tested to
national standards, although the law enforcement agencies will swear
black and blue they do and its your problem, as they hand you the fine.
Even when speedometer were mechanical, they did better than 10%
accuracy, as long as the vehicle was relatively new and the tires were
the correct size. The only vehicle I drove with a speedometer off by
more than 3% was an old F100 farm truck with greatly oversize rear
tires. At an indicated 55, you were doing 60 (a 9% error). With
mechanical speedometers you could fix this by changing the drive gear
(usually there were a number of gears available). Years ago in NC, the
courts would usually let you off a speeding ticket if you could
produce a calibration statement from a speedometer shop that showed
you speedometer was enough to cause you to speed. They eventually
closed this loophole because it was being abused. I had one college
roommate who spent a couple of days changing his speedometer gears to
get one that made his ticket go away. He went back to the same
speedometer shop each time he changed gears. They knew exactly what he
was doing, but didn't care.
The chances of the radar being off by more than 1% are slim to none.
It is possible that they clocked the wrong "thing," but whatever they
clocked was probably going the speed they reported.
Yes probably but we are talking about LEGAL measurement.
Under certain circunstances RADAR or LASER are not and that is the
rpoblem. They CAN be set up to produce speeds read in excess by greedy
corporations. They wouldnt do that would they? YES they do. Problem is
how do motorists prove them wrong or faulty?
So NO governemnt accuracy department want to have anything to do with
testing these. So private companies do. Not exactly legal but accepted
by most judges anyway.
Actually, it is your problem. On highways and local streets, law enforcement
often sets up radar to tell you your speed. You should be able to compare
your speed to the speed on the display, and see how your speedometer agrees.
You can also take your car to places to be calibrated.
If you're going at the posted limit on an interstate highway, and people
aren't passing your right and left, you're speedometer is off.
No one can test you speedometer legally. All they can do is say they
comply with the manufacturers specifications. Wear on tyres, larger
tyres smaller tyres wrong gearbox or diff gummed up speedo all create a
situations whereby things are not what they seem.
Note I said legally. In court close enough is not legal evidence. It
must be legally accurate.
RADAR can be set up to deceive and quite often its done to get a qouta
of bookings so the operator can go home.
Wrong Radar can be set up at the wrong angle
Can be interfered with by other transmissions
The band is not guaranteed to be free of interference
Transmitters of all kinds can interfere with the low level of signal
employed by RADAR
Reflections from 1) other cars 2)signs 3) Bigger vehicles 4) closer
vehicles 5) multiple path reflections 6) Rain and wet vegetation giving
incorrect readings. 8) Power lines running in line creating
interference. The person using the camera may or may not even be aware
Also the RADAR gun can be set to retain speed readings, leading to
multiple bookings to be made at same time.
Trust them? Not likely. Would you trust them with your wife? No one would.
Wrong No one is certified to the scientific legal standards.
There your answer then. Youre slightly prejudiced, as I am having
defended and dealt with a few speeding charges.
Dont get it wrong. Technical devices cannot be trusted all the time.
They are subject to many faults as we humans have. Unfortunately
technical devices are hard to argue with. So are Policeman who swear by
Simply put, guns jam, cars breakdown, electronic devices do also.
The problem I have with them is when an innocent person does get booked
he has very little he can use to defend himself. In a electronic age we
need to make sure "BIG Brother" is up to the job.
Radar works by measuring the rate of the returned signal and comparing it
to the transmitted signal. Just as you can hear the doppler effect with a
train whistle, the radar unit does the same thing with the micowave signal.
Unfortunately, it is indiscriminate, it measures the largest return signal
it receives. If you have two vehicles traveling in the same direction and
the second vehicle reflects more of the signal then it will be the second
vehicle's speed which will be measured.
There are several factors which must be taken into consideration when
challenging a radar ticket:
1) Operator training;
2) Calibration of the radar gun;
3) Site selection/presence of other vehicles, or devices which emit a
signal in the microwave band.
Rain, fog, vegetation such as trees and bushes whose leaves contain water
will increase the "clutter" that interferes with the signal.
***I was repairing/calibrating radar systems long before anyone ever built
a unit that could be hand held, when the "computers" (such as they were)
were tubes, gears and resistors. (AN/MPQ4-A Anti-Battery, Anti-Mortar and
AN/TPS-25 Ground Surveillance Radars.)
LOL, unfortunately, while I have a decent track record in court and
various quasi-legal areas of bureaucratic matters for myself, and friends
and family, I'm afraid that I would not be your best choice in this case.
There are better expert witnesses available. I have not kept current with
the technology since my forced retirement from the Army just as the new
digital systems were being introduced. I have read of radar-ticket cases
being successfully challenged and if your need is great enough (IOW, if
the penalties faced justify the cost of defense) you should be able to
find someone qualified without too much trouble.
Not that I advocate trying to get out of a justly deserved ticket, mind
you ;-). I got busted once, at somewhere around 40 over the posted limit.
I came around a bend, climbing up into the mountains on a crisp, clear
autumn afternoon with no other vehicles in sight and there he was, above
in the median. I just pulled over and waited after I went by him. He
pulled up behind me about two minutes later. I handed him my lic. & reg.
and he said "Do you know how fast you were going?" I looked him in the eye
and said "Yep."
That was the entire conversation. When he came back with the ticket I saw
that he had written it for only half of what he could have. I just paid it
and figured I got off easy.
It just that a class action to get them to do it right, to get public
servants and the corporations of their conceited Ass.
The manufacturers cannot comply with ASA (motoring standards)standards.
There are NO speedometer calibrations experts who can test them legally,
including the ones the Police use.
I have the evidence.
Legally accurate. This means that the measurement is accepted as scientific
evidence by the standards as prescribed by scientific bodies. This "should"
be the only evidence accepted by the courts, but has been ignored and
to be ignored by the police force, and the courts because of lack of
knowledge and deceit by corporations all over the world. Dont forget,
equipment is being used, they usually (not always) get a cut. They also
"test" their own equipment in cases and it may be that due to lessening
income due to drivers complying after being stung by huge fines they
"fix" them to read higher than the actual speed.
They wouldnt do that? I know of a lot of fraud involving corporations.
You only have to read the Newspapers.
See this >> From Federal MP Dennis Jensens maiden speech in Western
On the subject of raising revenue, state governments have become so
greedy that they blithely ignore simple fairness in enforcing speed
limits that are quite often not set on a scientific basis but
established from simple guesswork or, worse, with a view to maximising
revenue from speed enforcement. Speedometer accuracy is legislated to be
within 10 per cent by Australian design regulation 18, yet in many cases
this is ignored in the threshold that is used to enforce speed limits.
Picture hiring a car at an airport, obeying the speed limit according to
the ADR-compliant speedometer but then getting a speeding ticket due to
overzealous enforcement. As if this were not bad enough, speed-measuring
devices in many states have scientifically unsupportable tolerances
applied, blatantly ignoring Australian standards.
In many cases, they are supported by suppliers, such as Multanova, who
are either totally technically inept or simply not beyond using lies to
support the illegitimate tolerances to ingratiate themselves with the
authorities to ensure repeat business. This highlights the need to
generate legally enforceable national standards. We do not need police
standing adversely affected and undermined by opportunistic traffic
enforcement policies. Ensuring fair enforcement thresholds that allow
for speedometer errors can be achieved by an amendment to the National
Measurement Act. Scientifically justifiable speed-reading device
tolerances could be enforced by ensuring that Australia standards have
the full backing of legislation. Currently they do not, and the states
are thumbing their noses at these standards.
Here is his website. I believe he is an honest politician, which is rare.
On Wed, 21 Feb 2007 10:19:24 +0000, Picasso wrote:
Only 13 mpg with that little motor and a 5-speed? Shoot, my Lincolns ('91
& '92) get 24-26 mpg with the 3.8L motors and auto trans. 13 mpg is almost
as bad as my big Dodge Ram with the 318 V-8 and auto trans.
You sure that thing is running right?
Oh trust me. I've been over this again and again. Buddy of mine has a
93 4.0L and gets 20mpg, and another friend of mine has a 3.0L 5speed
('06) and gets 15-16... so i don't think i'm too far off in an 02 w/ 120
my crown vic gets 21mpg
my 99 f150 4.6 ext cab auto got 17-18
This is silly lawsuit. Who doesn't know odometers aren't 100%
accurate? Maybe if an engine blew up at an indicated 36,800 miles and
Honda refused to repair it, there would be a claim. My experience with
Honda is that they do a very good job of honoring the spirit of their
warranty and not just the letter. If you are leasing the vehicle, and
the odometer accuracy bothers you, have it checked before you sign on
the dotted line and have the accuracy figured into the deal.
I have always checked my cars odometers. Generally all the Fords I
have owned have been 1% to 3% "slow," i.e. show a few less miles than
actually traveled. The Toyota I owned was the other way, it showed
about 3% more miles on the odometer than I actually traveled. My last
GM car (a Vue) was about 1% fast. My Nissan's speedometer is about 3%
optimistic (Indicated 70 is really 68) and the odometer is almost dead
on (about 1 % slow - indicated 10 miles is really 9.9). I have never
had a car off by more than 3% as long as the OE tires were installed.
+4% would indicate that you are going 57.6 mph when the speedometer
indicated 60 mph. -1% would mean you were doing 60.6 at an indicated
60. No speedometer is perfect, so if you are trying to just avoid a
ticket, give yourself a little margin.
Given the variation in tires, you are never going to get perfect
results. I have read that in Germany, by law, speedometers have to be
optimistic (show a higher speed than actual). THis makes sense to me.
We owned a bunch of Rangers (83, 86, 89, 92, 99) and none have been
off my than 3% and in every case the odometer indicated fewer miles
than actually traveled. Do you have the OE size tires installed?
Either your Ranger is messed up, or you drive like a wild man. Our '92
Ranger was a 3.0L Automatic (2WD) and averaged around 20 in normal day
to day use (it is a farm vehicle and wasn't driven on the highway, but
the regular driving wasn't stop and go either). The '99 is a 4L
Automatic 4WD and gets the worst mileage of any Ranger we have owned,
but is still a lot better than 13 (around 18).
Close but no cigar. In PA for one being timed with radar, use only by the
PSP, the speed must be more than 6 MPH over any posted speed limit. For ALL
other timing devices, like VASCAR used by city and other local departments,
the speed must be more than 10 MPH over the posted speed, but only 6 MPH
more than the posted speed limit if it is 55 MPH or more. The exception is
school zones, posted at 15 MPH, then there in no leeway. In reality police
in PA do not issue citations unless one is clocked at more than 10 MPH over
the posted limit and none of them use the vehicles speedometer.
A little know fact about PA, that as far as I know is not true in any other
state. Painted road markings, in and by themselves, are NOT legal traffic
control devices. I E One can pass on a double yellow line, if there are no
signs denoting passing is prohibited, provided one can do so safely.
Another is, it is not legal to DRIVE in the left lane in PA, except when
overtaking another vehicle. The fine, with costs, is $136 ;)
Source; Pa Title #75, Motor Vehicle Code. SEC 3300
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