I'm back and it's still sitting in my garage...

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wrote:


Still have not heard if he has 12 volts to the injectors. Without that, he doesn't stand a chance. He can check that with a standard 12 volt test light to ground.
The other test light check is to put the test light from batt pos to the "ground" side of the injectors and crank the engine. If the light flashes the ECU is triggering the injectors. If he has no 12 volts and has a trigger, it will be a connection, fuse, or relay. If he has no 12 volts AND no trigger it will be one of those common to both the injector circuit and the PCM. If he has no 12 volts and has a trigger it will be one specific to the injector power only.
--
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On Dec 9, 1:37 pm, clare at snyder.on.ca wrote:

New plan...
First...

Second... Lugnut's recommendations
Third... The list of items I put in my reply to Lugnut's recommendations.
Joe
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<clare at snyder.on.ca> wrote in message

Clare,
Since I have 12 volts between one side of the injector connection and battery positive, can I assume the steps outlined above are now irrelevant?
Thanks!
Joe
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Possible you could also have a dying hall-effect sensor inside the distributor......

irrelevant?
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No, I am still working on it.
When performing QA1, QA2 and QA3, and all the other pinpoint tests, can I simply disconnect my PCM and test on the connector or do I need a breakout box in order for the tests to be run properly?
Thanks!
Joe
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Michael,
You certainly do not need to apologize. I started the name-calling and it was absolutely uncalled for.
Thanks, again, for your help and encouragement.
Joe
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Done, everything seems in order.

Done, noid light tester does not flash; one side of connector has 12V and the other side has 0V.
Any thoughts on where to go from here???
Thanks!
Joe
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Do a compression test to a few cylinders. I know of someone who had a 1991 GMC pickup that had the same problem. Turned out his timing chain snapped & the camshaft wasn't rotating. If your distributor is driven by the cam then that will not be the problem but it doesn't hurt to check compression.
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I've seen the module go bad on some of them fords and still let the spark plug fire but would not let the computer know when to fire the injectors.
The only way is do a noid test on the injector harness some part stores have free module test.
need to check the fuel pressure also.
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The noid test failed...
Could the Ignition Module go bad, but all of the resistances be within spec?
Joe
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Module... I checked the resistances and they are in spec.
Noid Test... No pulse.
Pressure Test... In spec.
Any suggestion where I should look next?
Thanks!
Joe
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Lets see if Joe checks back in and gives us a report of any progress.

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The noid light did not flash...
I think I see light at the end of the tunnel...
or is that just some lsd molecules jarred lose?
Joe
... I see myself driving soon!
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HHHEEELLLPPP
The best I can figure, the injectors are connected directly to the PCM...
Does that mean the PCM is bad?
From above...

Since the non-code reader code reading thing did not work (see above), I bought a code reader and I am about to try it. Since the non-code reader code reading thing did not work, I am not confident the code reader will work.
Here goes...
Joe
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On Sat, 8 Dec 2007 21:34:41 -0800 (PST), Joe

Joe, I am not going to go into a lot here to cause more confusion. You indicated you have spark at the plugs. We have no idea if that spark is timed close enough for the engine to run but, since you said it would run with starting fluid sprayed into the throttle body when cranking, you should for now assume the ignition system is functional. Keep in mind that the EEC-IV ignition system is not entirely dependant on the vehicle even having a functional PCM. If you do not know how to chack basic timing while cranking the engine with a timing light, you will will just have to trust me that it can be done with a timing light. Use a piece of chalk to mark the damper for good visibility and you will have to look very closely while checking. Also, your spark needs to be a bright blue capable of bridging a 1/2" (13mm) gap to run that engine or most any other EEC-IV system. Starting fluid can be ignited much more easily than the lean mixture of gasoline the car is designed to start and run on. You timing should be no more than 15 deg from specifications. If it is, you must find out why. If the distributor is still tight and has not moved, you may have a failed timing chain. Most of the failed timing chains I have ever replaced were in engineds that were running "well" when stopped and would not restart. This can be verified by suddenly drastic sbhange in ignition timing and using a dial indicator and degree wheel to check valve timing. A compression test showing all cylinders uniformly low will also be an indication.
You have said there is no activation of the noid light (s) when installed on the injectors. That does tell us they are not being pulsed and will not provide fuel. The 12v to the injectors is regulated and supplied by the PCM. The PCM controls the injectors by switching the ground. If this is not happening, it is an indication the PCM may be bad - they do not often fail.
You indicate the fault light lit dimly if at all instead of bright very defined blinks. If you followed the instructions to the letter and could not get a readout, this is an indication the PCM is not working properly. Even when expensive diagnostic equipment cannot get a response, this method usually works if the PCM is functional at any level. Before the PCM is condemned, you need to ascertain the power supply to the PCM. Make sure you check the EEV-IV relay.
Lastly, have you checked the Inertia kill switch? If not, find it and push the reset firmly a couple of times. The one in my CV tripped a few months back. We came home and everyone got out. Next morning, it cranked like always but, would not start. Engine had ignition and no fuel. Without thinking it thru, I called fro a new fuel pump even though it had pressure. Before leaving, I remembered the inertia switch and pushed the reset a couple of times. It fired right up and hasn't missed a beat since.
As it turns out, the inertia switch does not kill the ignition system at all just the fuel side. It won't cost you anything to double check it. Mine had to be pushed very firmly to reset.
Lugnut
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Thanks!
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Lugnut,
I plan to pursue each of your recommendations.
FYI: Following is a list of other things folks in this NG suggested I pursue that I have not yet pursued, but plan to in the following order. (Any comments or advice from you or anyone else would be greatly appreciated)...
1. Timing 2. PCM Ground. 3. ECM Ground. 4. Fuses (Although I wish I knew which ones specifically they meant.) 5. Relays (Although I wish I knew which ones specifically they meant; e.g. Fuel Pump Relay and/or WOT Cut-off Relay and/or Others.) 6. Fusible Links (Although I wish I knew which ones specifically they meant; e.g., D behind the PCM and/or Others.) 7. Coil. 8. PCM Swap
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Forget #1. Concentrate on #2 and #3 (same thing). and #4. The fuse in #4 will be labelled ECU or EFI and can be identified in your owner's manual. If you have a schematic available you will be able to determine which wires should have power and from which fuse. You will have one unswitched power that maintains memory and one switched power that feeds the logic of the computer. The feed to the injectors themselves has been verified, which eliminates the EFI relay (at least on any car I have worked on) The fusible links have also been eliminated, along with the coil. A PCM swap (assuming you can get the right one) would prove you DON'T have a power or ground problem if it woeks, but if it doesn't work you are out the cost of the ECU/PCM and still need to do the ground and power tests.
My gut feeling from the fery start was a bad ECU ground. If I had the manuals available I'd point you to the proper connection but my brother, who has the Mitchell On Demand program on his shop computer is out of town so I can't get to it.
If he's not too busy and stressed tomorrow I MIGHT be able to get onto the system and check it out. What year and VIN code?
--
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Joe - read this whole thread myself. Tend to agree with the folks that say CHECK THAT GROUND....there's a reason that car ran fine one day and not the next.
You're getting fuel, spark and timing has not changed....check the ground....
Jimmy
Jimmy
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take the module out and have it checked with a machine.
Are they not any parts stores around where you live? like autozone or advance auto
These stores have free module test.
PLEASE HUMOR ME !!!!!!!!
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