Disabling ABS on my Van

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80 Knight wrote:


Although unusual, it is still possible to lock all 4 with ABS (in that situation, some ABS systems don't realize you're still moving since all four reference points are stopped)
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When approaching a stop sign, the ability to stop nearly always trumps the ability to steer.
Dave
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Right, but when you can't stop, being able to steer away can be just as important.
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Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

I don't understand this problem with steering.
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wrote in message

If you don't know how to brake properly in a non-ABS car, smashing the brake peddle down and locking the tires up will make the car go in whatever direction it wants, no matter which way you turn the wheel. However, with ABS, you can smash the brake peddle down, and the ABS still allows you to steer. I'm not really pro or con ABS, as I have had cars with both, but I think it is a helpful feature, but it definitely can't make up for a bad driver.
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80 Knight wrote:

Why would someone purposefully "smash" the brakes? That tactic is suicide. I dunno. It would seem to me that it would be preferable to have the proper driver vehicle control training. But, what ever works best for each individual, I suppose.
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wrote in message

Pressing the brake as hard as they can is some people's reaction to almost hitting something.
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80 Knight wrote:

And ABS is a good tool at training in that behavior.
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We should increase the eligibility for a license by a few years, have better training, and have a much more difficult test too. But all of that is not going to happen in my lifetime.
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wrote in message

No offence, but I don't think that would work. Here in Ontario, we have a "graduated licensing" system. You can get a G1 at age 16, which allows you only to drive between the hours of 5am - 12am, and only with a fully licensed driver who has at least 4 (if memory serves) years driving experience. You also can't have more then 2 friends with you. After one year (or 9 months, with driver's training) you can get a G2, which means you can drive anytime, and alone. After that, you get your full G. That was all from memory, and it's been a while, so I'm sure someone else will chip in and fix my details. Anyhow, my point was it still doesn't work. We still have drunks driving, and punks driving. None of which should be behind the wheel. And, there isn't an age either. I know 16 year-old's who drive better and safer then some 40 year old's, and of course, vise versa. It all depends on the people.
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Therein lies the problem, and it's why I'm against so many "safety" innovations. Attempts to replace driver skill with technology is a questionable benefit at best. Technology breaks and suddenly too many drivers are unable to cope at the minimum level of control. Technology is not all encompassing or fool proof either. Remove those basic driver skills by creating a driving public that relies on technology, and you end up with roads full of incompetent drivers. But - at least they are confident drivers. After all, they have such things as ABS, OnStar and a plethora of other "safety" features in there vehicles.
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Mike Marlow wrote:

Soon we won't have a choice. Didn't the NHTSA pass a rule last year that all (even the entry-level) cars are mandated to be equipped with stability control by "x" year? (which means ABS since ABS systems are part of any stability control system).
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Some of our states have a similar graduated system. Right, it does not work. Just this week, I know one girl in the hospital with a broken leg, and on the news a 17 year old was charged with vehicular homicide for killing a 15 year old on school grounds.
I have a 19 year old grandson that is an excellent and capable driver. I won't let him use either of our cars unless one of us is with him. I also know what he is capable of if he is on his own.
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I have to admit, I have done some really stupid things in my cars, but I always respected other people's. I'm 26 years old, and got my G1 when I was 16. My grandparents never hesitated to let me use there cars, nor did my parents or anyone else, after I proved to them that I could be trusted with them. Trust has to be earned, IMHO. If someone show's they can handle the responsibility of driving a car, then that's fine. If not, they better save up there own money. My own daughter, for example, is still a few years away from 16. However, when she turns 16, I will see what she is like, and decide if she will be driving my car. If she can prove to me that she is capable, then she will have free will with the car. If she blows it, it's all over. As for the driving age, I can say that I drove a couple of times with my father before I was 16. I can also say that in Ontario, they have been trying (off and on at least) to bring the driving age up to 17 or 18 for years. Would that help? I don't really think so. Like I said, some people are in there adult years and still drive like morons. It's like all other aspects of life. There isn't always a win-win situation. Sometimes, you just have to decide on your own.
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I think I might recall having heard something like that. I won't complain about it if/when it becomes reality, but I think it's a move in the wrong direction for the reasons I stated in the previous post. But... life marches on regardless of my opinions.
As an aside, I had a little fun in the snow tonight. We've been getting hammered in central NY this week and on my way home from an event, I played around a bit with ABS versus pumping the brakes in the snow. Hands down, not even a close match, pumping the brakes gave immensely more steering control than just standing on the brakes and letting ABS do its work. I mean, it wasn't even remotely comparable. ABS was pulsing away and the car had some steering control, while pumping the brakes like we were taught in the old days (and which I still do to this day) gave near complete steering control.
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Sheese, you don't always just stomp on them. You use them like normal brakes. They know when they have to work, you don't have to tell them. Your test was not fair if you just put more than needed pressure. The only time you'd ever stand on the brakes is in an emergency stop. Under normal snow and slippery driving, a sensible driver will be going at a speed that should not require full pressure to stop. Under the best of plans, a wheel or two can hit a slick spot and lock up. Then the ABS kicks in and prevents that from happening. That assist from ABS is where they do the most good and keep a driver out of trouble. There is no technology that allows a driver to maintain perfect control when traveling too fast.
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wrote in message

down,
in
Good point - my post was incomplete. I'd been shoveling snow off my roof all afternoon and I was too beat to even type well - hell, to even think well when I posted this. Actually, in playing around I tried all sorts of braking. I did some rather sane approaches to a stop sign type of braking, where the ABS was indeed kicking in and some very aggressive braking. Obviously, where I did very gentle braking the ABS didn't even kick in, so it was not a factor.

Oh - that's correct. The ABS certainly knew when to kick in, but the point is that hands down, a good pumping brake was far more effective than letting ABS work.

only
Correct - again, my fault for being so brief in my earlier description.

prevents
Yes there is. It's called... a snowbank.
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That explains a lot. The post was a bit out of character for you as your comments are usually precise and accurate.
We're probably going to set a new record for snowfall this year too, but for having the least of any winter. Only 3.5" so far. Normal is 48" for the years.
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wrote in message >

roof
of
for
We've made the national news with our weather this past week. CNN covered us, the Weather Channel was out here, as well as all of the local network affiliates swarming around the area. We've had roughly 100" this week. We're used to a lot of snow, but that is a huge amount to fall in such a short time. We've been doing nothing but plowing and shoveling roofs.
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wrote in message

If you lock up the front wheels, they become sliders like skis and tend to just go straight. Yes, you can let off the brake, pulse the brake, but not as fast as the ABS system can do it. ABS does not prevent stupidity, it is not a cure for every problem, it is another tool that can make driving safer.
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