If you don't know how to brake properly in a non-ABS car, smashing the brake
peddle down and locking the tires up will make the car go in whatever
direction it wants, no matter which way you turn the wheel. However, with
ABS, you can smash the brake peddle down, and the ABS still allows you to
I'm not really pro or con ABS, as I have had cars with both, but I think it
is a helpful feature, but it definitely can't make up for a bad driver.
Why would someone purposefully "smash" the brakes? That tactic is
suicide. I dunno. It would seem to me that it would be preferable to
have the proper driver vehicle control training. But, what ever works
best for each individual, I suppose.
No offence, but I don't think that would work. Here in Ontario, we have a
"graduated licensing" system. You can get a G1 at age 16, which allows you
only to drive between the hours of 5am - 12am, and only with a fully
licensed driver who has at least 4 (if memory serves) years driving
experience. You also can't have more then 2 friends with you. After one year
(or 9 months, with driver's training) you can get a G2, which means you can
drive anytime, and alone. After that, you get your full G.
That was all from memory, and it's been a while, so I'm sure someone else
will chip in and fix my details. Anyhow, my point was it still doesn't
work. We still have drunks driving, and punks driving. None of which should
be behind the wheel. And, there isn't an age either. I know 16 year-old's
who drive better and safer then some 40 year old's, and of course, vise
It all depends on the people.
Therein lies the problem, and it's why I'm against so many "safety"
innovations. Attempts to replace driver skill with technology is a
questionable benefit at best. Technology breaks and suddenly too many
drivers are unable to cope at the minimum level of control. Technology is
not all encompassing or fool proof either. Remove those basic driver skills
by creating a driving public that relies on technology, and you end up with
roads full of incompetent drivers. But - at least they are confident
drivers. After all, they have such things as ABS, OnStar and a plethora of
other "safety" features in there vehicles.
Soon we won't have a choice. Didn't the NHTSA pass a rule last year
that all (even the entry-level) cars are mandated to be equipped with
stability control by "x" year? (which means ABS since ABS systems are
part of any stability control system).
Some of our states have a similar graduated system. Right, it does not
work. Just this week, I know one girl in the hospital with a broken leg, and
on the news a 17 year old was charged with vehicular homicide for killing a
15 year old on school grounds.
I have a 19 year old grandson that is an excellent and capable driver. I
won't let him use either of our cars unless one of us is with him. I also
know what he is capable of if he is on his own.
I have to admit, I have done some really stupid things in my cars, but I
always respected other people's. I'm 26 years old, and got my G1 when I was
16. My grandparents never hesitated to let me use there cars, nor did my
parents or anyone else, after I proved to them that I could be trusted with
them. Trust has to be earned, IMHO. If someone show's they can handle the
responsibility of driving a car, then that's fine. If not, they better save
up there own money. My own daughter, for example, is still a few years away
from 16. However, when she turns 16, I will see what she is like, and decide
if she will be driving my car. If she can prove to me that she is capable,
then she will have free will with the car. If she blows it, it's all over.
As for the driving age, I can say that I drove a couple of times with my
father before I was 16. I can also say that in Ontario, they have been
trying (off and on at least) to bring the driving age up to 17 or 18 for
years. Would that help? I don't really think so. Like I said, some people
are in there adult years and still drive like morons.
It's like all other aspects of life. There isn't always a win-win situation.
Sometimes, you just have to decide on your own.
I think I might recall having heard something like that. I won't complain
about it if/when it becomes reality, but I think it's a move in the wrong
direction for the reasons I stated in the previous post. But... life
marches on regardless of my opinions.
As an aside, I had a little fun in the snow tonight. We've been getting
hammered in central NY this week and on my way home from an event, I played
around a bit with ABS versus pumping the brakes in the snow. Hands down,
not even a close match, pumping the brakes gave immensely more steering
control than just standing on the brakes and letting ABS do its work. I
mean, it wasn't even remotely comparable. ABS was pulsing away and the car
had some steering control, while pumping the brakes like we were taught in
the old days (and which I still do to this day) gave near complete steering
Sheese, you don't always just stomp on them. You use them like normal
brakes. They know when they have to work, you don't have to tell them.
Your test was not fair if you just put more than needed pressure. The only
time you'd ever stand on the brakes is in an emergency stop. Under normal
snow and slippery driving, a sensible driver will be going at a speed that
should not require full pressure to stop. Under the best of plans, a wheel
or two can hit a slick spot and lock up. Then the ABS kicks in and prevents
that from happening. That assist from ABS is where they do the most good
and keep a driver out of trouble. There is no technology that allows a
driver to maintain perfect control when traveling too fast.
Good point - my post was incomplete. I'd been shoveling snow off my roof
all afternoon and I was too beat to even type well - hell, to even think
well when I posted this. Actually, in playing around I tried all sorts of
braking. I did some rather sane approaches to a stop sign type of braking,
where the ABS was indeed kicking in and some very aggressive braking.
Obviously, where I did very gentle braking the ABS didn't even kick in, so
it was not a factor.
Oh - that's correct. The ABS certainly knew when to kick in, but the point
is that hands down, a good pumping brake was far more effective than letting
Correct - again, my fault for being so brief in my earlier description.
That explains a lot. The post was a bit out of character for you as your
comments are usually precise and accurate.
We're probably going to set a new record for snowfall this year too, but for
having the least of any winter. Only 3.5" so far. Normal is 48" for the
We've made the national news with our weather this past week. CNN covered
us, the Weather Channel was out here, as well as all of the local network
affiliates swarming around the area. We've had roughly 100" this week.
We're used to a lot of snow, but that is a huge amount to fall in such a
short time. We've been doing nothing but plowing and shoveling roofs.
If you lock up the front wheels, they become sliders like skis and tend to
just go straight. Yes, you can let off the brake, pulse the brake, but not
as fast as the ABS system can do it. ABS does not prevent stupidity, it is
not a cure for every problem, it is another tool that can make driving
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