2010 Civic LX: 30,000 Mile Service: "E Service": Ripoff?

you're right - i'm forgetting the nature of the beast these days.

in principle though, it's what you call the "wallet flush" that i'm trying to flag. the majority of this stuff is bogus and unnecessary. and certainly not a $600 investment.

FWIW, the independent facility I go to (some, or all, of whom are Honda-trained mechanics) that I go to charged me $250 for my each of my 2004 Accord's 60,000 and 90,000 mile services. That included the usual oil and filter; air filter, brake fluid flush and replace, replace transmission fluid, pollen filter, tire rotation; and inspect everything else from top to bottom and adjust as necessary.

Since everything checked out ok, there were no additional charges.

good, that's much more realistic.

I called the aforementioned cheaper Honda dealership after this post yesterday to get their prices on the list above. They were cheaper than the original Honda Dealership I've been talking about. A mechanic also picked up the phone. He told me that Honda doesn't recommend a transmission flush, as it could hurt the car. He said they just replace the fluids instead.

Being charitable, I'm guessing the mechanic at the original Honda Dealership was just being sloppy with his language.

The good news is that replacing the transmission fluid, instead of a flush, is about $100 cheaper. So, I can get the package down under $400. I live in an expensive metropolitan area.

My trust for the original Honda dealership is a bit eroded.

Some of the comments about some of my list not being needed at all, with others arguing that they really are ( here in the group ) has me concerned.

I'm thinking of either going to the cheaper Honda dealership or the independent to explain what happened and ask them their opinion on what I need.

Steve

Don't bet on it. I've had Honda dealers try to sell me on a transmission flush before and then offer a standard drain-and-fill as a much cheaper option when pressed about it. The last time it happened they backed off when I told them I'd already had to have the transmission replaced once and wasn't eager to repeat that experience.

You have to remember that the dealer is not the factory, and when you receive information from a dealer that conflicts with what's in the owner's manual, it's always in your best interest to opt for what's recommended in the manual.

you should ALWAYS be skeptical about a dealer's service recommendations. you know that big shiny showroom and all those ads they run in the paper? that is expensive overhead, and YOU are paying for it.

your first port of call on information is always the owner's manual. anything else you get after that can be ranked by the individual's experience and background. someone with an opinion, however much they may try to assert it, or well intentioned they may be, doesn't mean they actually know what they're talking about.

look for practical experience, e.g. elmo with recent honda transmission reliability issues, and rank responses accordingly.

1. read the owner's manual and compile a list of what it says to do.
2. /tell/ the service location what /you/ want them to do.

if you don't, you're basically asking /them/ to set your budget for you. also, call around with your list of what you want, and tell them you're shopping on price. if nothing else, you'll find it an instructive experience on how they react!

You can let it go right down to 0%, it's not like the car is going to blow up if you put another 1% mileage on it.

J.

wait a minute. Think this through.

If the guy at the first place was "just being sloppy with his language," then didn't he really mean "drain/fill"?

Then how could he have been $100 more expensive for "the same thing"?

You need to sit down and think these things all the way through before you act. You almost got talked into spending $600 that plainly you didn't need to spend. That quoted transmission flush was very clearly something more than a drain and fill; it was intended to flush out your wallet, both short term ($100 worth) and long term (new transmission at

what you NEED to do is to START with your owner's manual, and do EXACTLY what it specifies.

If you want to be overly protective, do whatever it says to do for a severe driving environment.

Do NOT ask the "mechanic" at the Honda dealer what he "thinks" unless (a) he's an honest-to-god tech with years of experience under his belt, and (b) you know him well. The guy you *have* been speaking with is the service writer, who is a service salesman. He gets paid on his ability to flush your wallet. He is not there to be your friend or advisor.

Your car is EXTREMELY highly engineered, and Honda's documentation is where you rest your faith (although, as I can personally attest to, even Honda will f*ck you if it's in their short term monetary interests nowadays). Anything else--the service writer, and even things you read here--should be viewed as old wives' tales until solidly proven otherwise.

Of course, if you hang around here you'll discover who knows what and why, and will be able to figure out who to pay closer attention to.

So: what does your owner's manual say the "E Service" consists of? Let's start with that, and ignore the old wives' tales.

Hi,

I own a 2010 Honda Civic.

I went to have my oil changed last night.

The express mechanic told me I am 2,000 miles away from the "30,000 mile E Maintenance" package needing to be be done and do I just want to go ahead and do it now?

Price? $590 + tax !!!!

I can never recall a tuneup being that much and this is what it sounds like, a fancy tuneup.

I'm going to check my owners manual and I will likely get it done as I don't like messing with factory recommendations, but this feels like a rip off

Is it?

Steve The Honda dealer I use has an awards program where you are awarded points for each service performed. The points give you a discount on future service -- 500 points $50.00 off for example. I recently had an oil change, transmission and differential drain and refill on my S2000 for around $50.00 using my points.

The two Honda dealerships near where I work and live do not do this.

That is okay. The phone calls I have made as a result of this event showed me that the original Honda Dealership ( near where I work ) is not the cheapest or most competent.

The one near where I live made a good impression on me and their labor rate is only $3/hr more than the the independent mechanic across the street from where I work.

From now on I am taking my maintenance to either them or the Honda dealership near where I live.

Steve

Why did you have to have your transmission replaced?

That advice is not so useful. I read the maintenance section of my manual. It does not give you a list of things to do and it doesn't give a list of things to do by mileage.

It basically says to watch the maintenance minder and it gives you a chart to interpret what the icons mean.

Steve

No disrespect, but I read that section of the manual and going below 15% wasn't something that sounded like a healthy thing to do for the car. No disrespect.

Steve

I wrote previously that I read the manual, that the manual does not give a list of maintenance to-dos by mileage and the manual only says to obey the icons on the maintenance minder, which you have to let get down to 15%.

If I misread something and you know more than this I would be grateful to hear what you know.

Steve

so pay to get some oil analysis done. that'll tell you something very important - that the maintenance minder, while a much improved tool compared to a traditional "no usage data" approach, is actually very conservative. if you're using a decent quality motor oil, you can typically go quite a bit further on your oil than the maintenance minder says - thus you are perfectly safe at 0%.

sorry guy, but you need to move with the times. the maintenance minder is a much more sophisticated tool for maintaining your particular vehicle than the "one size fits all" approach used back in the 1950's. in fact, it's quite conservative.

and the "30k mile service" concept is basically just an anachronism dating back to the ancients when detroit iron was starting to fall apart by then. no modern car has any issues at 30k miles. and frankly, any competent service tech will give the car a quick inspection when they have it up on the lift for the oil change anyway. that's all you need. you certainly don't need to pay a premium price as if this is anything other than ordinary maintenance.

that's because the minder is not "one size fits all" like a fixed schedule.

unless you have a specific reason to disobey, like you've done oil analysis, then you should indeed "obey" the maintenance minder. the minder is based on millions of vehicle hours of analysis and millions of dollars in development. it's not there just so you can ignore it and go back to the 50's. all modern planes, trains and ships use this [and much more sophisticated] technology. for a reason - it works, prolongs the machine's life, and saves money.

I agree with this, but my point was a reply to your advice to read the owner's manual and make a list of what is says to do. My point was that the manual only tells you to watch the maintenance minder, so you can't make a list.