Fram aftermarket Sonata Oil Filter - Failure!

There is a difference between having to go cheap and choosing to go cheap. The discussion was about choosing cheap and then claiming it didn't matter.

Matt

I should also say that I have 40 years of engineering and product design management experience in the packaging industry segment and I was constantly under severe pressure to 'cheapen' the product to compete with off-shore products. One one occasion I was told by the CEO of our $2.5 Billion corporation to 'make the product JUST good enough to pass the tests." Therefore, seeing 'Made in USA' on a Purolator filter, sadly, does not mean it is better than one made elsewhere. I say 'sadly' because I hate buying products made off-shore, but I do it to stretch my dollar. We all do it.

My fram for 06 sonata says "Made in Korea"

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It certainly isn't the only metric, but it does hold for many, many products. Every oil test I've seen shows correlation between quality and price.

Matt

I have only 25 years of engineering and engineering management experience [but in a $6B company - :-)], and I've never had any such mandate. However, that really is the essence of engineering. The key is what the specifications are against which the product is being tested. I designed products and manufacturing equipment, not packaging, but I can see a distinct difference between packaging and products for longer-term use. If the packaging is good enough to protect the contents while it is in transit, that is all that is needed. Making it two times better adds no value. Products that will see a long service live under widely varying conditions are a little bit different.

Matt

I just saw a Purolator filter for the 07 Santa Fe: made in India.

Our 275 gallon containers routinely last 5 years or more carrying hazardous chemicals. It is scary when you relate that to what I said. I find it very strange that you never were under cost constraints. You must have been making the overpriced machinery that we bought. :o) Our company was still 'small' enough to not be insulated from upper management. We routinely conversed and interacted with them. They actually knew what was going on at the 'floor' level - a trait missing in too many of our companies being run by MBA's and accountants.

There you go!!! The cheap of the cheap...................

That's interesting in that mine did not specify. I posted a bunch of pictures of it in the ~ June timeframe just after they appeared in the stores. The failed filter was installed around the end of August. I looked at the O-ring again, and it is still compressed looking.

Exactly. Moreover, when I checked the specs of the Fram filter for the Elantra, the relief valve (bypass valve) pressure was well below Hyundai's specifications. OTOH, Purolator filters ARE made to Hyundai's factory specs. I imagine other reputable filters are also made to the correct specs, but obviously, Fram doesn't care enough to do so, which is more than good enough reason for me to avoid them like the plague.

Additionally, any company that sells "snake oil" such as filters that contain Teflon (long ago disproved as a useful oil additive) and nonsense like special filters for use with synthetic oils is highly suspect. This silliness is all about marketing and increasing profits by deceiving the public, not about protecting engines.

I'd DIE before I put that cheap Korean crap on my Hyundai.

PB

change, and installed the Fram filter in my 2006 Sonata. All was well until >

I noticed the oil stain on my driveway yesterday. (My wife drives the car). >

This morning, I looked under the hood, and found oil had been leaking from >

between the cap and the filter housing. I tried to give it a turn, and found >

it tight. I started the engine, and the entire filter housing was almost >

immediately covered in oil. I took the filter cap off, hoping that it wasn't >

cracked. > > It wasn't. The O ring for the cap was flat. It actually had hardened. I've > changed the oil in the car like 6 times now, and the Hyundai O ring was > still round and soft (flexible) when replaced. The Fram O ring actually is > now flat on the outside, and was really hard. I have pictures of the Hyundai > O ring I replaced it with up against the Fram O ring I removed. My server is > currently dead, so I anyone's got either a way to host them, or suggestions > as to how I can link to them, let me know (my email address is valid), and > I'll either email them to you, or follow whatever instructions so everyone > can see. > > I think a contributing factor was the cold weather we had the past few > days - pretty close to 30. I would have noticed the oil on the driveway, and > the way the oil flowed out, it would have made a really big puddle, and ran > the oil level down in the car. I suspect that as soon as the oil warms, it > quits leaking. > > I figure there's no point in trying to contact Fram about this - I can > picture how their customer service would react - denial.

Wow! We have covered several areas. I have a BSEE, MBA and Masters in Systems Engineering degrees. Have over 30 years experience in product design and now work for a major airplane manufacturing company (many billions) as an Avionics Engineer.

To evaluate an oil filter, one would need to know the specifications of the product including the tolorances of the parts, the material trace, the characteristics of the paper used in the filter, the quality control system, etc. We do not have access to that kind of info so just have to go by hearsay and experience.

I have found a couple of websites that have evaluated oil filters but just take those inputs with a grain of salt. Also, I wonder about the value of the filter with the high detergent oils we have today.

Medical question: I have an HMO and have had a couple of major surguries over the years. One should be educated and well informed before listening to any doctor. I investigate the ones I use very thoroughly before using them. Money is not the determining factor but past results are indicative of their quality.

When judging the quality of almost anything we purchase or use today we are limited by time to do research and lack of available information.

According to my training, a product should meet the listed requirements but not be overdesigned to the point of waste. I'm sure this is the attitude of Hyundai.

That filter may well be a genuine Hyundai filter repackaged by Fram.

You've joking, right? Your car is "Made in Korea". Even if it's assembled in the US, most of the parts are made in Korea.

I was using the comments of 'others' to show them that, if they were correct in their proposition that country of origin makes them cheaper, then you can't get any 'cheaper' than India. That was a revered Purolator filter that was made in India, not a Fram. ALL companies under pricing pressure are reverting to the lowest cost producer and making things 'just good enough' to do the job. Fact of life.

Very well put, southluke.

I never said I wasn't under cost constraints. I said that I'd never had a mandate from the CEO to to "make the product JUST good enough to pass the tests."

I'm not insulated from upper management. I had the CEO, the President and COO and the CTO in my lab just a few months ago and they are visiting my project again next week...

Matt