New Starter Motor - lasted 3 starts.

Hi

Fitted a brand new Bearmach branded starter motor on my 300 TDi defender on Thursday. Didn't drive it until today. First journey went well. On return from second journey I accidentally had it in gear when I started it, so put my foot on the clutch and tried again. Rapd clicking....... so I rocked the vehicle back and forth in gear in case something had jammed in....then tried again. Now I just got the sound of the motor spinning very fast with no load.

Got tow started by a mate. Once safely home tried again - same problem - motor spins fast but does not engage.

So - guess I have a dud motor. At least the bolts/nuts should be easy to get off again!

Any advice about what brand to replace it with? Need a motor with a lifespan in excess of three uses. Also need one able to wade as I live on a road that floods badly every few months. Apart from that it should have a nice life as my engine starts first turn...always!

Henry Exeter

Reply to
HM
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Is the battery known good?

Reply to
Nige

Add to that, do you have a good connection between the engine block and the chassis/battery earth?

You probably didn't look but what is/was the condition of the teeth on the flywheel ring gear? What was the state of the teeth on the old starter pinion? Did you examine the old starter for clues as to why it failed?

Have we heard about any previous history? Did the old one just die because it got wet or is there a history of other starter woes?

How deep is this flooding - do I remember 5ft? At this depth you should you using the flywheel housing drain plug - are you?

Reply to
Dougal

The battery is in very good condition - not that old, holds charge well, doesn't go flat etc etc. Both the old and new starters ran very well (nice and fast) when they worked.

As I have never had any typical bad earth issues (slow rotate when starting etc) - and the earthling strap to the engine isn't that old - I douby I have an earth issue.

The old starter teeth were healthy (just had another look). Can't comment on the fly wheel - the engine has done 90k miles.

The old starter was misbehaving - when you turned the key there was a click and the lights dimmed slightly but nothing happened. If you released the key and tried again - it generally worked (if not, try again and then it did). A couple of days after the wading, the 'try again' approach stopped working. This misbehaving had been going on around 3 months.

The flood - well - I drive the road fairly often - and usually it floods to around a foot - so assuming it was also about a foot - I didn't put the wading plug in. Then you're committed and it's too late to start crawling under and inserting the plug. The axel breathers are all suitably high level (up snorkel).

The new starter worked PERFECTLY when I installed it. I guessed the bendix gear had failed - just a bit upset it failed so early - and also - assuming it is the bendix - is the weak spot on some starters?

Cheers,

Henry

Reply to
HM

Just been doing some reading......the starter from Bearmach cost me £79 + VAT. As such, it's probably a Prestolite....

They seem to get a bad press.

Henry

Reply to
HM

Don't think they have the Bendix type starter, all 'pre-engaged' these days. I get the symptoms you describe when there's insufficient juice in the battery, something that happens too often on my motor but I've come to live with it. Its OK if I don't leave it too long without starting her up, >couple of weeks. In spite of your assurances about the battery, check it! has it its full compliment of acid? I ran one nearly dry a little while ago (not in the Disco!), firkin big bang! bits of battery all over. My checks on the battery were the same as yours, it ain't that old, it holds a charge, this did till it was nearly out of acid! Check it before the same happens to you! If your're charging it, remove the filler/inspection plugs to avoid the build up of gas.

Reply to
GbH

OK - I'll take the plugs out of the battery tomorrow, check the acid level and give it a good charge. I'll also run an earth jump lead from the battery straight to the engine. I'll report back here once I have done it.

Surely though if I had a poor battery the headlights would be a bit dimmer, the volt meter would read lower and the engine would crank slower?

Henry

Reply to
HM

Sounds to me like it needs new contacts fitted to the solenoid. That shouldn't be a massive nor expensive undertaking.

It hasn't got a bendix, but it does have a pinion with a one way clutch

- your description implies that the one way clutch has failed.

Reply to
EMB

Thanks for those points - I did some more reading and now understand the one way clutch system.

Once I have tested the battery, checked the acid levels, run an alternative earth (and then disconnected the -ve) I'll take out the new starter ready to swap it tomorrow.

I'll also look at getting some new solenoid points - at least I can then have a spare.

Final question (already asked) - is there a brand of starter motor that people recommend? The shop supplied both Bosche and the Bearmach (Prestolite I think) - in other words - is this failure common on the cheaper brand, or have I just been unlucky?

Henry

Reply to
HM

In article , HM writes

I've just been through a similar rigmarole, although I had to get the garage to do the starter.

The battery was tractor-sized (90AH) and one cell had failed. It fooled the 'intelligent' charger completely, giving about 12.5V when fully charged. All cells *looked* OK, but when put on a 'dumb' charger for a while, all but one gassed - a sure sign. I'm *fairly* certain the starter needed doing too... :-(

Get a hydrometer - it's a good way to assess cell condition, and I don't know of any other way in modern batteries, without deliberately overcharging them, as I did.

Reply to
SpamTrapSeeSig

OK - been busy again.

  1. Battery - checked acid levels - all just above plates, but added a tiny amount de-ionised water to increase depth slightly.
  2. Connected spare known good battery via fat jump leads with -ve to starter motor area. Tried starting - same issue - high speed spin and no engagement.
  3. Removed starter motor.
  4. Fywheel teeth in good condition.

So - I think the one way clutch on the pinion has failed. Will take back to Bearmach Exeter tomorrow and swap. The original starter with the presume failed solenoid points is a Bosche one - so I guess the points are faily easy to source. I'll repair that one to add to my growing 'spare' shelf!

Henry

Reply to
HM

I suspect you're about to prove that. Suspicious that two aparently good starters exhibit precisely the same symptoms!

Reply to
GbH

On two starters one claiming to be BNIB new? No, forget the starter, problem is elsewhere!

Reply to
GbH

On the modern pre-engaged starter the Solenoid is integral! so unless your replacement 'new' Britpart? is in fact (poorly) refurbished the solenoid contacts should be indestinguishable from new?

Reply to
GbH

No - I am now 100% sure it isn't elsewhere........

  1. The original starter motor had been filing over several months. A final dunking in the water finished it. Symptons indicate solenoid has failed - click but no turning of the motor. Over the several months that it had bene failing, by trying aian, then again it woudl usually work.
  2. The original starter motor is a bosche type.
  3. The NEW starter motor bought to replace the failing original is a Bearmach - suspected Perstolite
  4. new starter worked fine for first three uses. On 4th attempt (whilst away from home) I had it in gear - by mistake. Put more than usual load on the starter. From then on would spin up but not engage.
  5. Battery is fine. Have used NEW battery and new earth lead to engine this morning. HAve also checked acid levels in battery.
  6. Failure of both starter motors is in completely different manner. The origianl clicked, but didn't turn. The new one turns VERY FAST but doesn't engage. So effectively, I have been supplied a dodgy new starter motor - which I am sure isn't out of teh question.

My view now - I'm with EMB - the device (one way clutch type device) has broken on the new one. On the old one, the solenoid points have been failing, and the final dunking has finished them off.

Solution.....replacemnet/swap NEW starter motor under guarantee and replacement POINTS on old starter motor (to keep as a spare).

Anyway - old one out now and ready for shop to open tomorrow for a replacement.

Henry

Reply to
HM

OK, seems it wasn't the battery, I thought both motor failures were the same. I now STFU!

Reply to
GbH

Yes, but I wouldn't tell them you tried to start it in gear. Having said that, you can move a disabled car quite easily in gear on the starter, the starter should stand that sort of treatment.

On the old one, the solenoid points have been

Reply to
Oily

Hmmmm - as you say - it's how you're menat to recover yourself if your engines dies whilet wading etc etc.... and let's be honest - everyone does it from time to time - and if that kills the starter motor then they would all have a very short lifespan!

GbH - thanks for all your advice regarding the battery. If nothing else - my one now has nicely greased terminals and has had a nice top up of distilled water. All in all - it's now a very happy battery - just ready for when I get round to fitting a nice new winch when it warms up.

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Reply to
HM

When they go pop it's quite spectacular and not good for either the complexion, if you get the acid on the chops, or the underpants if, like me, you're of a nervous disposition! If not you probably will be after!

Reply to
GbH

I'm only reading it as 1 failed BNIB starter.

Reply to
EMB

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