I took my partners son and daughter driving in my Rangie on a mates farm at the weekend and they loved it. They are 11 and 16 years old.
Obviously I can't let them drive on the public highway but can we use private car-parks in the evening etc? Is there anywhere where they can drive legally? I can't go back to the farm too often as it 200 miles away and a
400 mile round trip at 14mpg hurts!Adam
I don't know the legality, but I think it is not so much a question of finding somewhere where the normal rules of the road don't apply as a question of whether you will provoke intervention from the nanny state in terms of health and safety.
Remember, although it might be a 'private' car park but it is likely still a 'public place'.
Not in car parks to which the public have access run some twit over taking a shortcut or on his skateboard even tho' he was trespassing and you are up shit creek. In a secure car parkas in one inside a factory beyond the locked gates you would be Ok apart from the H&S guy having kittens. It used to be the case that schools would have a predriving course on the premises tho' in todays climate nanny probably says no.
Derek
And have a read of the small print of your insurance, the chances are you aren't covered a) beacuse the youngsters don't have driving licences b) you are on private land.
A bent wing is a bent wing...
Interesting comment about a "private car park" being a "public place". If the car park is Tesco's then I sort of see the connection as the public are admitted but if it is J.Blogs Ltd car park, where the public are not generally admitted, then it's not a "public place". Though I'm not sure how the "public place" affects or otherwise the legality of minors driving. One would have course have to have permission of the land owner, I can't see Tesco giving that, J.Blogs might.
On or around Tue, 26 Feb 2008 22:41:32 GMT, "Adam" enlightened us thusly:
Beware of public car parks, which are public places. Private car park to which the general public has no access is probably OK, I expect that to be safe from trespass allegations you'd need permission to be there, technically.
Some apparently-private roads around places like universities have some kind of deal where they're classed as public, I believe.
All hearsay and guesswork, in the best tradition of AFL :-)
On or around Tue, 26 Feb 2008 23:20:39 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Liquorice" enlightened us thusly:
That of course is your risk. Same as me letting minors drive my motors on non-public tracks.
True but one that is worth pointing out considering the cost of un-bending a motor and the inconvience of having to find a replacement whilst it is unbent. Things that are provided under many insurances.
Oh well, I guess the occasional visits to the farm will have to suffice till they're 17 then...
Adam
It is a plubic place if the plubic is not physically excluded. ie not sufficient to just put a gate across the entrance and a notice up. Has to be fenced or similar and that in good functional condition. If the plubic can get in, in spite of efforts to exclude them, it is a plubic place!
If you can find a local farmer willing to allow you to drive around in a field then whack it into low range so they can get gear change practice without needing to get any speed up, that's my plan if any neices or nephews want a tootle in the landy.
Both my daughters' and a number of their friends' first driving experience was at a farm, in my s3 88 and they didn't stay in low range after the first 5 mins.
AJH
And not just the expense of unbending your own motor but also repairing whatever was hit to bend the wing :-)
My kids (8 and 10) at the time have both driven the RRSC around farmland. I keep it in low box for them and they seem happy enough :)
Most off road clubs have "Tyro" competitions which allow drivers from 13 upwards, they are off road usuall hilly fields are not car damaging and are for road legal 4x4. They are good fun and certainly teach you where the corners of the car are!. They are only allowed to drive over the competitive sections, a qualified driver has to drive up to the start line.
from the SORC site
The terrain used for Tyros is non-damaging and courses are designed not to allow vehicle to vegetation/ground contact with only slight side slopes. Given the safety of the ground used Tyros are suitable for any drivers and entries are invited from people aged 13 and above. Passengers in the vehicles are permitted, over two years old for the rear and over 14 for the front seats, new height restrictions for the public highways will rule on this for height/seat/age, etc. (Entrants without a valid driving license are not permitted to drive around sites and are restricted to driving the actual sections) This is designed for the family 4x4
It's good fun even for the grown up children!! and covered by the MSA
Des
In message , Austin Shackles writes
In terms of Charity collections a supermarket car park would be regarded as a public place as would a shopping mall. So don't let your kids drive your Rangie into the supermarket entrance otherwise you really are in trouble.
Under the Dangerous Dogs Act it has been deemed that even the inside of your car can be considered a public place if your vehicle is in a place to which the public has access.
The moral of this post is ask a simple question and you will get a complicated answer.
It's unlikely that a wise farmer will allow this. We can't demonstrate that the public are physically excluded, adults are deemed to have a sense of right and wrong and shouldn't be trespassing but kids are deemed to have no sense of trespass and we should assume they coud be anywhere when it comes to safety. Finally as long as we have a single footpath, bridleway etc crossing the farm it is deemed that all vehicles must have valid 3rd party insurance cover. If I was to give anyone permission to access a field it would in effect be a public place.
Can any farmers who are still farmers be classed as wise? ;-)
According to my bank manager the answer is yes ;)
It's hard to feel confident in farming at present, but the banks still seem to rate land as just about the best investment out there.
In message , Tim Jones writes
Interesting. Just shows have far PC has gone.
I always understood, and I am quite happy to be corrected, that normal motoring insurance cover didn't cover you off the road in places such as even supermarket car parks. I can understand it being advisable for you to have the above cover but is it mandatory?
Road Traffic requirements such as insurance and driving licence only apply to the public highway which of course includes green lanes.
If you are staging an event to which the public have access whether an entrance fee is charge or not then you would be wise to have Public Liability Insurance, but it is not mandatory. As I said this is just my perceived knowledge and I could be quite wrong about some or all of this.
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