I assume you are talk* Synthetic blend media backed by a metal screen - This may be a good feature, Donaldson and Amsoil filters offer this, at a much lower price.
Long Life Silicone Anti-Drain Back Valve - the cheap Motorcraft filter comes standard with this.
Exterior Gasket with PTFE - Several filters (Amsoil for one) also offer this feature. I suppose if you change your oil filter once a decade or install it with a 10 foot pipe wrench, this might matter, but it is mostly advertising BS. At best it is a marginal advantage worth a few pennies.
70% more capacity vs leading competitors average - totally meaningless BS. We don't know who are the leading competitors, exactly which filter p/n(s) this applies to, or the average capacity of the competitor's filters. In general FL820S size oil filters have far more capacity that will ever be required (compare an FL820S to almost any Toyota or Nissan filter for engines of similar size).
96% Single pass efficiency - this is mediocre at best
I'd be interested in cutting an XG2 filter open, but at a price of $23, there is no way I am buying one. If somebody has a used one they want to ship to me, let me know and I'll pay for the shipping.. I have a feeling they are sourcing this filter, or at least the media, from Donaldson (Donaldson also makes the Amsoil EA filters). The Donaldson filters are much cheaper.
SMS wrote in news:GOAWk.8994$ snipped-for-privacy@nlpi066.nbdc.sbc.com:
You must mean this:
I did snip that. But the author does NOT test drainback valves. He simply mentions what he thinks makes a good valve and what does not.
On the Knize page (which is greatly updated and much more humble than the page I last looked at several years ago, this is found: "Hydrostatic Burst Pressure - Since I cannot test this myself, I have removed this data. SAE J806 Filtration Efficiency - Since I cannot test this myself, I have removed this data. SAE J1858 Filtration Efficiency - Since I cannot test this myself, I have removed this data."
Unfortunately, /these/ are the tests that primarily differentiate a "good" filter from a "bad" one, and /these/ are the tests the author has omitted.
It's really too bad the author has left out the SAE test results. In most scientific and statistical testing, the raw data used in tests are made available to others along with test methodology. That's how you determine bias. Bias is not detemined on the say-so of somebody who refuses to reveal the data and methodologythat he claims are biased.
I stand by my original assertion: There is not yet any reliable and verifiable evidence to prove that one oil filter is better than another, and, if some /are/ better, to what degree.
Don't know of one that really tests the items in the real world and then rates them. All the different manufacturers claim that they test against others and that theirs are the best. The catch is that you never see them saying who they tested against or what the real results were.
There are few online sites that have cut open filters and such but unless they rig up a test bench, actually run something through the filter and prove what it does and doesn't do the results are meaningless. It doesn't mean a thing if you have more media in the can if that media isn't filtering well. As for cardboard end caps, So what, the filter media is paper or fiberglass weave which will blow out first. The drain back valve MAY make a difference, however as long as it functions it doesn't matter if it's rubber, silicone or metal.
My personal preference is to use a filter that has proven itself over a long time and from a company that stands behind their products. Same with oil. Use the proper oil in proper grade and don't use the gimmick crap. Synthetic if the customer asks or it's the proper oil.
On oil filters I tend to use the larger filter if more than one fits the vehicle, and it will fit. For instance on the GM 4.3 there are two filters, one is listed for the 4X4s and the other for the 2WD. The larger filter will fit on 99% of them, the only ones it is tight on is the early remote mount units with the filter on the inner fender.
The problem is simple, the equipment needed to run the SAE tests is very expensive. A consumer could 1) purchase the equipment and run the test for the many filters available for a given application, or 2) pay a test house to do the testing, or 3) request the information from the manufacturer.
Options 1 and 2 are very expensive and well beyond the average consumer's means. I've tried option 3. Responses range from partial information, to "no way will we give anyone that information." Some companies (Wix) provide at least minimal information that you could use to make a comparison. Some companies provide nothing (ACDelco is the worst of the comanies that will actually respond). And some companies will send you a lot of meaningless advertising drivel that at best confuses the facts (Fram and Amsoil).
So unless you are going to spend big bucks, a beauty contest is about the best you can do. In general OEM filters come off better in beauty contests than cheap aftermarket filters. And if you aren't willing to make any judgment calls based on appearance, then going with the OEM filter is likely the best option. I usually do this, unless the OEM filters are hard to find, or wildly overpriced.
I think you are wrong to completely dismiss beauty contests, particularly those that measure the internal filter elements (particularly the media). All other things being equal, more media has to be better than less. Thick media is more likely to remove fine particles than thin. A filter with more filter media surface area is more likely to have a higher flow rate and higher filter capacity than filters with less total media area. It is obvious that some anti-drain back valves are made from stiff material, and likely to fail and that some relief valves seal poorly. Filter elements with the media well potted in metal end caps are more likely to be durable that filters with the media poorly glued to paper end caps. Etc. Etc. If a company goes to the trouble to include well made ,obviously superior, internal components (the parts the average person never sees), I feel certain they are also using top quality filter material. If a company builds filters with crummy internal components, but spends million on advertising...well you can guess what I am thinking.
There are a few cases where the beauty contest falls apart. The Donaldson and Amsoil EA filters have media that is completely different that the traditional paper (cellulose, or even "synthetic" paper) types of media. I find it hard to directly compare them. And the situation with Toyota filters is really strange. The OE filters on the 2.4L I4 engines in the two RAV4s I service has media unlike anything else I have ever seen (even in the standard Toyota replacement filter for these engines). The OE filter is so different, I just think it has to be better, but can't prove it. The OE filter has other "better looking" features as well, so it wins the beauty contest anyhow (compared to the made in Thailand Toyota replacement filter).
My experience with Honda replacement filters is limited. The one that I cut open that said Honda on the outside was, as far as I could tell, identical to a Fram on the inside. Perhaps it had superior media, but it did not look any different and it still had the crummy looking paper end caps and poor quality relief valve. I go for a Wix or Purolator filter for that application every time.
Of course you can also question just how good a filter has to be. All filters go into bypass mode at times, so there is always the possibility of contaminants slipping by. The pick-up screens on the oil pumps block the grosser stuff that would lead to immediate damage, so the filter is mostly there to trap particles that could lead to long term wear. My feeling is, if you are concerned about engine wear, the air filter and PCV systems are more critical than the oil filter. Most of the "dangerous" contaminates that end up in your oil after the car is broken in, come in via the air intake. Cut down on the fine dust getting into the engine and you will go a long ways towards protecting your engine from wear.
In the past there have been engines that didn't even have external oil filters (old VW bugs for instance). And I remember when GM only required you to change the filter with alternate oil changes (maybe they still do), meaning the filter might be on the car for 15k miles (or more). And despite this, GM used oil filters the size of a teacup (like most current Toyotas and Nissans). I've always wondered why Ford and Chrysler always used comparatively large filters and required them to be changed with every oil change and GM used small filters and allowed them to be changed every other oil change. It always made me wonder just how important the oil filter is. I've cut open quite a few used oil filter and never found much to be concerned about. However, I don't have a good way of determining how much the filter has actually trapped. If anyone has a suggestion on how this might be done CHEAPLY, I'd love to hear it. My only thought is to fill the new filter with oil and weigh it before I install it on the car. Then, when I remove the filter, refill it with oil (after emptying out all the old oil) and weigh it as a comparison, assuming any difference in weight represents contamination trapped by the filter.
"HLS" wrote in news:_WCWk.6231$W06.4416 @flpi148.ffdc.sbc.com:
Let's make that "expert" opinions (with quotes).
Without the results of properly designed empirical testing, everybody's an "expert", the way doctors were "experts" at infectious disease before the discovery of microbes.
My personal and untested opinion is that most aftermarket oil filters are about the same quality as most aftermarket car parts, which is to say of poor and/or questionable quality. that's why I only ever buy OEM for our (Honda and Toyota) vehicles.
Oh please! If you can permanently deform the cheap bypass spring with two fingers, or if you can see that the anti-drainback valve doesn't even fully rest against its backing plate, then it most certainly DOES mean "exceptionally poor functioning construction." This isn't rocket science, and anyone with *any* background in building/tinkering/fabricating can make a pretty darn good assessment of certain design weaknesses. I'll grant you, it doesn't tell you anything about the capability of the filter media itself because that's a microscopic characteristic. But for the big things- you DAMN sure can tell a lot that would make you rule out certain designs.
At some very primitive, minimal-function level yes. But really buying OEM means absolutely nothing at all. OEMs get more and more lax about the replacement parts they "approve" as you get further and further from the model year in which your car was built. Now if they still use the same filter on cars currently in their warranty parts stream, you're better off. But still no guarantees.
Which is why I buy Wix, which just never has any complaints or gripes no matter where you look.
Not true the way that oil filter media is made. If you look at the typical oil filter media under pressure you will find that the higher number of pleats do a worse job of filtering and passing oil. That is because the pleats tend to press together and restrict flow through them. They also open other areas in the pleats so the filters actually filter less.
You do know that Fram MAKES Toyota's filters? They have for quite a while. They also have made filters for Ford, GM, and even have been a source for other filter makers as well...
Not really, they just send a producer the specifications and say what will you charge us for 50K of this filter. They specify the color and part number. They may test a few samples but after that they expect the supplier to stand behind the product.
OEM filters often come from the exact same filtermakers that are being discussed here. It is still no guarantee of anything except that you have a paper trail if you have a filter related incident.
Gasket material can be paper, rubber, plastic, steel, copper, cellulose (i.e., paper), etc., etc. Calling the paper end caps Fram uses, "Gasket Material" is like calling oxygen a gas. While true, you will soon find out some gases are better than others if you want to stay alive. Other manufacturers use non-metal end caps, but in my opinion. no other "reputable" manufacturer does as poor a job of sealing the end caps as Fram. I have had no trouble at all peeling the Fram end caps away from the media. Try that with a Donaldson filter sometime or even the Thailand made Toyota filters.
I agree with the "expert", but not with the summary of aftermarket parts.
Some aftermarket parts have been better than the factory or "OEM' versions. In fact, that is not too uncommon if you buy from a quality distributor and use their good quality parts...(They will usually be cheaper than OEM anyway).
For example, on the GM Gen II 3800 engines, you would no replace one of the burned up plenums with an OEM if you knew what was good for you. Aftermarket had solved the problem that GM allowed to proliferate for ca
MotorsForum website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here.
All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.