Apples and oranges.... There is a huge difference between a sobriety checkpoint in Arnold, Maryland and a military checkpoint in Iraq. I do see your point that a 'touchy feely warm and fuzzy' safe way to stop the car at a checkpoint would be nice. Heck, I'd like to see that in almost every form of anything everywhere... I like marshmallows too. But intentionally running a military checkpoint in a war zone is what the topic originally was about. Morphing the location and enforcement branch is just clouding the issue. Lee getting personal? Well, that's Lee's problem. He's a big boy and he can deal with that himself. Jeff (Last I heard, Lee's family wouldn't even ride with him ...) Rice
You had three seconds to decide. By the time you read option D, they had already passed your checkpoint. There is no current "safely stopping vehicle" option over there. Thank you, now you made my point... you chose option A.
That 8 inches of thick armor plate didn't help the USS Cole that was approached by a small inflateable rubber raft. I bet it was fun trying to maneuver your ship around a motorized canoe... I'll put everything I own on the motorized canoe being able to get as close to the ship as they wanted to without the use of force. Pack it full of explosives and you would have a new artificial reef off the coast of Vietnam and a boat commander heading for Leavenworth all compliments of the US Navy.
Alex. Your point is noted. You are benighted as to exactly who put the people into power in Washington. You have no knowledge of how I have voted, or what party affiliation, or any political action I have taken. You make that leap on your own, and you are incorrect to say it. But go ahead. I know better and will reply in kind. Your comment on how we got into Viet Nam, and who skipped out in Viet Nam is also flawed, but only partially. I will not spend any time on that argument, because we are closer to agreement than you would admit, and you will not listen (or have not listened, based on most of your replies to post's on the forum) to those that differ from you on your current platforms. That is too bad. I withdrew my comment about your retirement, because I know not one thing about your personal plan. But I do know that a large part of this countries workers' retirement funding is tied up in stocks in the very companies you belittle. That is cutting your nose off to spite your face. It may be noble, but it won't make next months pension check any larger. I'm no different, because I am trapped in that same boat too. The rest of your post is just opinion on your part. I have not fallen for any lies. Again, you make that leap on your own, probably to plug in your own value system into the debate. You prove to me that there is no erosion of personal rights and liberties in this country. Your tact at debate by requiring specific instances is classic. Well done. Next thing you'll require the senate bill numbers just to prove there has been nothing taken from you/us. How pedestrian. I never said the words you wrote in this post. You did. I do not share that opinion. Fantasies? I have only a few....and they are very, very good ones .. Jeff
When I was in the Navy in foreign lands we would fire at ANYTHING or ANYBODY approaching our ship from the land or water in defiance of orders to stop and be identified, period.. By the way ships in the Cole class do not have anything near 8" of armor plate
Tis is where in a debate class you could have said.
My cop analogy was flawed since we are talking apples and oranges with my analogy. OK, you did that.
I think cops should be able to blow away a family with a drunk driver at the wheel. ( hinted at, since who knows what they are up to)
Now you close with a strong point by point explanation of why a way the troops could be protected without killing innocents is wrong.
i.e. bullets are cheaper then the inventions suggested in the first post, or I could give a shit about the dead family or how the troops feel about their deaths.
My point exactly, no one has explained the down side of looking for a a way of preventing innocent death while protecting the troops. As with the cop analogy, blowing away a potential few drunks and even their families would solve the drunk driving problem, but we choose a less drastic method. If it would be "nice" to do, why slam the post suggesting just that ? We are after all the "good guys", and not every Iraqi is the bad guy, why not try and sort them out. In the end, killing even one good guy does little to win hearts and minds. Some would say we should carpet bomb the entire country to solve the problem, and that's just a extension of the screw the potential innocents discussion.
As I occasionally clicked into that station during the ads on what I was watching, there was never anything said to indicate that the driver was aware that it was desired that he stop. The last visit (on tape or live, I don't know which) showed him at his destination climbing down from his cab. I don't recall being told why they wanted him to stop. This was on a LA station that my cable provider carries here, so there wasn't even an article in the local newspaper to catch my eye the next day or two. As this was a boring, low-speed affair, I'm sure it won't be on Spike. Obviously, there was much I mssed and probably even more that I've forgotton. Sorry, Karl
53 messages and no one has come up with an idea for the army to test despite all the brainpower expended in composig messages trashing one-another, Thank God you guys weren't in Studebaker engineering during WWII.
"preventing innocent death while protecting the troops" OK, that's a given. No problem with that. The problem is in 'sorting them out'. I guess I am not willing to allow ignorant people (families?) drive past checkpoints to blow themselves up while we try to find a better way. And exactly who wants to win the heart and mind of a person that wants to kill you? I still have trouble with the drunk driving analogy... That's a different thread to argue I guess...
OK, we're close now. Would you agree that the government looking at a solution is OK, and if found should use it ? Until then some innocents will die out of fear or stupidity. Folks that blow themselves up deserve their fate, not the kid in the back seat who's daddy made a fatal mistake when he had no reason not to stop from our prospective. That is, and has been my point.
Maybe we could drop a 2000 pounder on the road right before the location of the checkpoint... then people would have no choice but to slow down or stop to maneuver around the crater.
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