Slip the special brake pads and rotors & injector cleaner (use a bottle of Techron Fuel System cleaner) & wheel bearing repacking (forget that). Do just what your manual recommends and I'd think your looking at ~$900. Shop around for a better price.
You DON'T need a fuel injector cleaning service. As to the rest, this sounds like a great time to buy a Chilton or Haynes shop manual and learn about your car. You can save a lot of $$ here.
I'm skeptical about the wheel bearings. If they aren't making any noise and don't have any freeplay, they should still be fine. My wheel bearings have over 256K miles on them and they are just fine.
If you are at all handy you can do the plugs, plug wires and fuel filter yourself. The radiator hoses are also trival, but you have to be careful when refilling the system to avoid getting an air bubble in the engine that could cause head gasket failure.
The fluid flushes make sense, only because the shop has the right equipment to dispose of the old fluids properly. That said, the diffs use gear oil and changing that is just like doing a motor oil change - I do those myself. The auto tranny flush requires the shop. The brake fluid job is also important, and it takes some skill to bleed the brakes correctly, so best left to a pro (someone you can sue).
If the estimate for replacing drive belts contains any labor above that already included in the timing belt replacement, that's wrong - the drive belts have to come off to do the timing belt.
The timing belt replacement IS mission critical and if you already know it is cracking you should not drive the car until the job is done, unless you want to buy a new engine. While the timing belt is off, have the crankshaft and camshaft oil seals checked out and if they are leaking, replaced. The parts are cheap (around $30 for all 5 seals) and replacing them requires removing the timing belt so best to do it at the same time. Also replace the o-ring that seals the oil pump and make sure that the mounting bolts are fastened using Loc-Tite so they won't back out causing a leak.
Is there any problem with braking that would indicate you need new rotors? If you aren't getting any shuddering, vibration or grinding when braking, the rotors should be checked for thickness and if ok don't need replacing. What are the fancy pads and what do they cost compared to OEM Subaru? I found that for some reason only the OEM pads are squeal-free, and they should be cheaper than a "premium" aftermarket pad.
My local Suby dealer would charge around $575 for a timing belt and oil seals change, plus another $130 or so for the tranny flush. I don't know about the brake fluid, I do that myself. I'm getting ready to do my timing belt at home to save that $$.
The mechanic seemed to think that given the mileage that he'd recommend it as preventive to a clogged injector which would run several hundred to fix. Are Subie injectors fairly resilient to this sort of thing?
Oh I agree. Just don't have the time (that reason is a few months old, and spits up a lot).
Good to know. But he was repacking them while they were already in there, and it didn't really add to the expense.
Yeah I don't like dealing with antifreeze disposal. I've also read that the plugs on this model are a PITA to get to. Anyone confirm or deny? Normally I do my own plugs but I recall a reason at 60k I didn't bother.
Didn't know diffs were that simple--good to know for the next time anyway.
Yeah, you read my mind there.
Yeah, no adder there.
Been there done that on a Honda long ago where the first engine let go, used engine was put in and the dingbat didn't bother checking the belts adequately and turns out the timing belt on the used engine was pretty dryrotted. I have 4 shiny paperweights now that used to be exhaust vavles as souvenirs from that little learning experience with the used engine market. :-)
Interesting--that never came up in our discussion. I'll ask.
Yes, shuddering, uneven pad wear. The last folks who did the brakes thought it'd be a great idea to machine the rotors past their runout tolerance.
I priced this ahead of time going OEM on pads and rotors would add another $75 to the job. I can't recall the brand but they're evidently the top of the line ceramic. $375 was the parts cost for the front/rear pads+rotors.
Thanks for the input.
I don't feel any better though. :-)
-- Todd H.
2001 Legacy Outback Wagon, 2.5L H-4 Chicago, Illinois USA
Todd, sounds like you are getting a good estimate on the bits that are needed. But 160 clams for "fuel injector cleaning"??!! That is a pure profit grab. Buy a can of SeaFoam for $7 at your local auto parts store, add it to a tank of gas, and you will have done every bit as much good as that "service". Actually, the SeaFoam is seriously good as a fuel system cleaner, and I use it. Techron by Chevron is also good and available cheap at Wal-Mart.
Actually it seems to be more than that...involving some machine delivering chemical cleaners to the system and sounds as though it interfaces to a number of the parts of the system, cleaning the entire fuel delivery system?
I may be about to back out of it if injector clogging just doesn't seem to happen enough to worry about it though. The work is to be completed tomorrow.
Best Regards,
-- Todd H.
2001 Legacy Outback Wagon, 2.5L H-4 Chicago, Illinois USA
I've had most of the same work done on our 99 OBW (including water pump while the t'belt was off, which I also strongly recommend), although it was done piecemeal. I haven't tallied the receipts, but my costs were comparable...and all of my work was done at Evanston Subaru. You could analyze everything ad nauseum and maybe save a few bucks, but I like proactivity, plus time is money.
I've had most of the same work done on our 99 OBW (including water pump while the t'belt was off, which I also strongly recommend), although it was done piecemeal. I haven't tallied the receipts, but my costs were comparable...and all of my work was done at Evanston Subaru. You could analyze everything ad nauseum and maybe save a few bucks, but I like proactivity, plus time is money.
So true. We had an extended warranty on the used 1999 Legacy OBW we're still driving that expired this past December. Back in the summer, the oil pump seal went, IIRC, and I knew that to fix this problem the mechanics would be in the timing belt area, so while the extended warranty covered the labor and parts for the oil pump rebuild, we paid just parts and a little extra labor to have the timing belt and tensioner and waterpumpreplaced at the same time, at
87k miles, while the entire front end was open. We saved about $300 being proactive with this project. Yes, we did the work about 20k miles "early," but we feel better about it.
And a lot of it. The final damage was $2200. Just over a $1000 in parts! Rounding off the pennies:
Parts
----- front rotors 85 (premium) front pads 97 (premium) rear rotors 117 (premium) rear pad 94 (premium) belt 21 belt 2 fuel filter 45 timing belt 102 timing belt tensioner (out of spec, this car's 5th tensioner!) 143 trans fluid 18 spark plugs 10 radiator hoses 18, 16
5tqs 10w30 synth 28 plug wire set 66 brake fluid 9 brake cleaner 8 hose clamps 4 water pump 105 thermostat/gasket 21 cooling system conditioner 2 battery, installed 80 (when filled for load test found leaking, was due anyway since it was original 2001)
Tossed in a $226 discount out of "holy crap, this job got big in a hurry" compassion (I've been there on big computer jobs myself, feeling for the client as more and more problems are uncovered).
In comparison, my local subie dealer would've been in the same ballpark, interestingly. From an Arlington Heights subaru dealer::
Service level D (the biggie w/ all fluids, plugs incl timing belt change) $860 dealer menu Brakes and rotors, installed $730 dealer menu Injector cleaning service $138 dealer menu Timing belt tensioner part cost 143.65 Ac and drive belts 40? Upper/lower hoses $23 Water pump parts 100? OEM battery cost 80? OEM plug wire set 40? Tstat tstat housing 35?
Which puts us at $2190 before taxes they'd add, and I'm not sure I have all the parts the my guy replaced that might be needed up there. We also managed to get a $145 quote on the water pump when calling the dealer, but I'm seeing $95 as an OEM MSRP at least one place. Not sure what's up with that, or if there's another piece missing.
So a few summary lessons from my journey o going 3rd party doesn't necessarily save ya money. This is true of parts and labor apparently. o extended warranty folks, complain about your timing belt tensioner noise before the end of the warranty period, even if it's just as noisy as you remember it from the day you drove the last replaced one off the lot -- it may be out of spec. I failed to make enough noise about mine and here I was paying $150 to replace it, 5000 miles out of warranty. o water pump was in bad shape at 105k, definitely a good call to replace it. o 2nd timing belt was already showing some cracking at 105k despite a change at 60k. o don't buy brake pads at Autozone. They'll cheerfully sell you pads that fit on your vehicle, but aren't really qualified for your vehicle (n*****ts sold me semi metallic pads long ago when this vehicle requires ceramic) o dont' schedule routine maintenance of this magnitude right after christmas and year end contributions to children's educational savings accounts.
Thanks to all that participated in the thread. Due to timing and other issues, it was impossible to follow all the good advice tendered. :-)
Any courtesy of not following up and reiterating all the places I could've saved money now that it's after the fact would be most appreciated. :-)
Best Regards,
-- Todd H.
2001 Legacy Outback Wagon, 2.5L H-4 Chicago, Illinois USA
Thanks Ed. SEe that makes me feel better. :-) I guess it is nice not to have the car feel like the wheels will vibrate off upon braking.
According to my new mechanic, evidently the last yahoos to have their hands on my brakes didn't do anything with the rust on the shims, didn't adjust the parking brake and didn't do any lubrication of the pad guides, and hence the hanging up of the pads, the uneven wear. He also found the rotors beyond runout specs but no way of knowing if they were that way after the last people machined them, or if they wore into that state from there. Given that last brake job was a whopping 9 months ago, I have my suspicions.
Increases my confidence that I should do my own brakes again next time (using factory pad/shim sets).
Best Regards,
-- Todd H.
2001 Legacy Outback Wagon, 2.5L H-4 Chicago, Illinois USA
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