Ford over Toyota?

I think the two are necessarily related.

Why is everyone talking as if the reason why Ford is rated higher than Toyota is that Toyota slipped in quality? Perhaps the answer is that Toyota is still excellent, but Ford improved more than Toyota in some areas.

Personally, I think the latter is the case. Remember, though, just because a car has fewer problems in the beginning is no guarantee that the car will be working in a year.

Jeff

Maybe - but the Fusion is doing fairly well. Ford has a chance. There's still a hard core of people who will not consider a foreign car; it's like

40%. At worst, Detroit can share that and limp along. Or, if one goes belly-up, the other two might well get a slice of the market share and prosper. Relatively speaking.

My vote would be to sacrifice Chrysler. I've ridden in many of their minivans and they always strike me as the cheapest things imaginable. They could spin off Jeep (which could stop making those cheap Jeep wannabes) and Jeep would do OK.

What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder?

My father and brother own Corollas (2004 and 2005) that were made in Canada, and both have been extremely reliable as expected. Typical of Toyota.

I have a 2004 Honda Civic that was built in Canada, and it has also been extremely reliable. Typical of Honda.

On the other hand, my grandmother has a 2003 Ford Crown Victoria that was built in Canada, and it's a piece of junk. Typical of Ford.

So it is true that it makes no difference where the cars are made. It all depends on the manufacturer.

Ford may have improved for reliability in the short-term, but long-term (5+ years) remains to be proven.

Exactly.

Because I don't like a lot of stuff about American cars. A lot of them look like they are designed with old men in mind, things aren't where you want them, innovation is sometimes in the trunk.

Now, if you like American cars, fine. But I have always thought foreign cars have had more things *I* like than any others.

The point is every manufacture today is building great, long lasting cars and trucks. Survey after survey confirms that fact. They ALL make some on occasion that are not up to snuff, that is why they all offer a warranty. ALL of the warranties are becoming longer as well. The fact remains the only real difference is style and price, as I have been saying for years. It all comes down to personal preferences.

My oft stated opinion has been affirmed by the recent report by "Strategic Visions," the industries biggest research company, statement that the differences among the various manufactures today is basically meaningless. They suggest buyers should be looking for the best dealer service, lowest parts prices and insurance costs, STYLE and PRICE rather than brand names

mike

Ford and Toyota offer a 36,000 mi warranty. The same as was on my Contour ten years ago.

In your opinion.

Toyotas and Hondas last longer, on average, than Fords and GMs.

I have never heard of Strategic Visions. When I look them up in Google, I find marketing firms.

Consumers Union and JD Power and Associates, I would say, are bigger research firms in the industry (although both cover many different industries).

What people should be looking for depends on their needs. If they want a long-term car that has good quality, they should look for car models that stand up in the long-term. This includes many cars, like the Toyota Camry, Honda Civic and some Fords and GMs.

You're right, though. It shouldn't be brand names. It should specific models based on the history of those models. And when you look at models that last a long time, a large number of them are from Toyota and Honda.

Jeff

Others find differently.

So GM, Ford and Chrysler are being punished for their sins of 5 to 10 years ago?

Maybe they'll learn something from that.

By the way, I've had a taste of "dealer service" from Ford and GM. That helps send me back to Toyota.

Nor am I interested in PRICE, I'm interested in EXPENSE. My expenses are lower with Toyota.

YMMV.

Can JD Powers' Initial Quality Study be trusted? After all they used to rank a British brand among the top ten.

So? Jaguar had the highest rating, IIRC, this time.

All the means is that there were the fewest problems in the first 90 days. Doesn't say anything after 90 days.

I think the survey can be trusted for measuring the number of problems in the first 90 days of ownership.

jeff

My expenses have been rather low with my Ford Contour. About $4000 in repairs and maintenance over ten years and 142,000 mi including tires. I got lucky with picking a relatively durable model from Ford. Had I picked other models from Ford, I would have another car now or much higher bills.

The thing is that the average expenses for a particular model are likely to be lower with a Toyota than with a Ford.

It's hard to know what they will be. But a Toyota, if you keep a car long-term, is likely to have lower expenses than a Ford, at least for repairs. And if you don't keep it long term, then the resale value of a Toyota keeps the expenses, over the long run, down, too.

I did the math comparing a Ford Focus and a Toyota Camry, and the Ford was worth less as a percentage of the likely sales price new ($3000 off list for the Ford vs. list price for the Toyota) about 4 years later. I did similar calculations in the past, and came up with the Toyota being cheaper.

But, really, the bottom line is that the quality for all cars of the major brands is pretty close, with Toyota and Honda having an edge, and if you do your homework, you'll like have a car that will last a long time. You're just more likely to have good this sort of durable car with Toyota than with Ford.

Jeff

Or my 87' 4Runner. My father-in-law has always been "irked" that I bought my 4Runner. He bought a new Ford truck in 95' or so. I told him then my 87' 4Runner would be running long after his Ford gave out. To this day my 4Runner is my daily driver, 250K miles, virtually problem-free, has never leaked a drop of oil and looks new inside. His Ford truck has sat broken down in the back of his yard for a couple years now. Wobbly door panels and seats worn out. If only I were on speaking terms with him I could tell him, "I told you so!" Amelia

Actually, you got very lucky by picking one of the few good Contours. I know A LOT of Contour owners who had many, many problems with their cars, including some who had engine fires.

We were shocked by our first Toyota. Our previous car was a 62 Corvair with Powerglide (2 speeds, slow and stop.) The 72 Carina had more room for the family inside but was smaller outside and weighed about 600 lbs less. Got a lot better gas mileage, too. We didn't know anyone was building cars like that. We'd already seen the 73 Chevys. We would have had to bought one of those BUTT-UGLY Chevelles to fit us. We'd also looked at VW's (too expensive, because of the exchange rate with the DeutcheMark) and Fiat (Fix it again, Tony)

Charles of Schaumburg

My neighbor used to be a shop foreman for Penske at a Kmart, then he went to a couple of local chains. He says that the car is usually good for about 250,000 or so if you take care of it.

Jeff

You are entitled to your own opinion, no mater how convoluted it may be, but not your own facts. The fact is Fords warranties are not as you suggest, for one. Warranties in the fifties were 1,000 miles or 30 days WOF. Today they range up to 50K and 100K

The fact is the average new vehicle buyer in the US replaces their vehicle, with another new vehicle, in three to four years with 45K to 60K on the clock.

mike

Toyota did not even offer an automatic till many years later, after copying American designs

I see plenty of Corvairs at old car shows but never see ANY Toyotas from that time period. A nice Corvair is worth big bucks, to boot LOL

mike

Charles of Schaumburg

Any car today will easily last a long time, if given the proper preventive maintenance. One of my grand children has a 2000 Mystic, that once was mine. Currently 260K trouble free miles on the clock.

mike