Supra Tranny, Again. Need an MDT or a Service Rep here! ;)

Hmmm. Try copying the relevant pages out of a manual at work then rig a board with some switches to engage SL, S1, S2, and the torque converter lockup. You'd have a poor man's tiptronic!

The lockup is not OD. It locks the torque converter so there is no slippage. It's been a while, but I believe the shift sequence is 1 - 2 -

3 - 3/lock - 4 - 4/lock. I don't remember if the TC locks in 2nd gear or not.

OK, how is 4th engaged? I only have L,2,3 on the stick, and the O/D button. i top out on 3rd gear. How can I get 4th to engage? I though the lock-up WAS 4th!

And, uh, what is work? I kinda mutually agreed not to return there. After the change of ownership it just got worse...and worse...and worse...

To be honest, I don't remember any specifics but I thought that 4th was a combination of 2 shift solenoids. Lockup mechanically connects the pump and turbine in the torque converter so that the inefficiency caused by having to drive through a fluid is eliminated.

Oh well, you interested in going to the place a little west of you that sells Toyotas and Pontiacs?

Jesus H Christ, Hachi. Your stuff is always good for a challenge, definitely worth checking back in for. If you give me the specifics of your Supra, I'll check the EWDs tomorrow at work, download some files for you (if our POS computer is working...)

Yeah...I have no simple problem in my life! And I'm always trying to 'engineer' something or other. Never a dull moment in MY house!

Here's the deal. Thanks to

I've found that the OD switch and sL are right next to each other. Before I run to Radio Shack to pick up some connector sockets, what would wiring the O/D switch into the sL Lock-Up solenoid DO?

According to the TSRM, (in the same area; use Previous and Next to navigate the pages) the shift positions for this car are L=1, 2=3 and D=O/D. But it doesn't FEEL like O/D, it feels like third. 65 MPH on the highway turns 3,000 RPMs. It seems to me this car should be turning ~2200 at 65 MPH, so i don't THINK it's going into O/D. Ray says turning on sL will 'lock' the Torque Converter. I have to profess my ignorance here: What does locking the TC do? Does it reduce RPMs?

Short of actually removing the tranny and replacing the solenoids, as a short-term work around, does this acheive what I am attempting?

I'm raring to go! I've got all the materials (25 years of working in electronics and being a pack rat will do that!) but before I go hacking the system, what are the consequences?

Thanks, guys!

BTW, I located a car the same year and color (fender and door problems solved!) with a 5-speed. Looks like a project for next spring! So this will be a very short term fix indeed, since once the temps fall below 60 or so, the car goes back in the garage!

They'd have to pay me pretty well to get me to go that far...or THERE! I'm still hurting from the $700 AC repair that didn't!

One question I did want to ask, how do you get to be a regional rep? Obviously, my technical expertise isn't up for a Tech Rep; what other positions are available in Boston?

Well, the short answer to part of your question there is that OD and lock up are two different things. OD is a 4th gear range. Thats it. 'lock up' is when the torque converter, well, locks up. Usually, say at a stop, the torque converters two turbines are released. If they weren't the engine would stall (just like not pressing the clutch pedal at a stoplight). The reason the torque converter locks up is to save fuel while cruising. Also, looking at the wiring diagram on that site of yours, you only have

2 shift solenoids. S1 and S1. sL is indeed the lock-up control, as Ray pointed out. Turning that thing on manually is probably not a great idea. Having it on and off at the wrong times can dramatically affect the driveability of the car. Incidentally, I'm a bit late to party, I suppose, and I'm not quite clear as to why you are doing all this. Is the trans not able to hold a gear at all, or what is the deal?

s1 and s2=OPEN. No resistance (or conductivity) at all. THey're shot. Also, the speedo is out, so the speed sensor does not read anything. Probably the 'elbow' at the tranny that mates the cable to the gear inside. These are known to go bad.

So, with these problems ,the tranny doesn't shift. I have to shift it manually to go through the gears, but cruising RPMs, say, at 40MPH (estimated, of course) are about 2200 and 65 is about 3000. Seems there should be another gear. Or something. I thought this car had an electronically controlled O/D (hence the O/D switch.) So...from what you're tellin me is that s1 and s2 have to be WORKING to get into O/D (seems to me I remember seeing that on the TSRM...)

But I DEFINITELY need to save fuel while cruising! This thing right now is probably getting 16 MPG, if even that! It may even be as low as 12. i can't measure it because, aside from the Odo not working, there's a hole in the tank I can't find, so I can't fill it more than about 1/4 tank! (shall I keep going? There's more!) So, I'm looking for a way to lower the Rippems on the highway without ripping the tranny open; I haven't got the soleniods anyway. They're $135 each. i can get another AT for $50, but if I buy the other car for $250, I'll just swap the trannies. And the pedals.

Just was having thoughts how I could use the button on the shifter to actuate...SOMETHING!

First of all, it's probably been at least 20 years since I looked at the service manual for a Supra so I'm going by memory from the ECT class I took (probably close to 30 years ago!).

If you think of the classic explanation of how a torque converter works - 1 electric fan plugged in facing another fan that is not plugged in. The air blowing from the first fan moves the blades on the second fan, which in the case of an automatic transmission, would be attached to the input shaft of the tranny. If you apply the brakes and stop the blades on the second fan, the first fan is still moving but the brakes on the second fan keep it from spinning. This is how a TC slips when the vehicle is stopped. When you release the brakes on the second fan and allow it to spin, there is some inefficiency - that is, the second fan is not turning quite as fast as the first powered fan. By locking the TC, that is, coupling the second fan to the first one, there is no slippage. You lose the slippage, reduce the RPM needed for a given speed, and gain some MPG.

The solenoids work like a relay. IIRC, instead of controlling contacts, they control shift valves. A combination of the solenoids give you the different gears. I think that if the solenoids are shot, the transmission goes into mechanical mode, at the loss of some gears. If the solenoids are functioning, you could rig up a set of switches to control gears. The tricky part, like qslm says, is making sure the TC is unlocked when accelerating (so that you get torque multiplication from the TC and when stopped so you get slippage and won't stall the engine.

Send me an e-mail if you're interested. I'll give you the name of the owner.

The usual career path is to get hired right out of college as a management trainee, or MT. MT's usually work in one of the departments at HQ in Torrance or in the distribution, customer relations, or sales department at one of the 10 Toyota-owned regional offices. A bachelor's degree is minimum, masters is better. An MT will work 1 or 2 different departments in a year or 2 and then get assigned a field job as a district parts manager at a regional office, then district service manager, then district manager, department manger, and then back to HQ for more jobs. People with specialized skills like IT, logistics, manufacturing, engineering, or automotive technical skills would go straight to the respective departments but on a different career path. The field jobs and higher get benefits like company cars, employee purchase for family, and personal lease cars for immediate family members, expense accounts, trips to dealer shows every year, etc. The employee lease is a much better deal than a normal retail lease because it covers maintenance, repairs, and insurance for something like 1% of dealer cost. For me, the lease payments on a loaded Previa were less than the cost of insuring a 16 year old teen driver on a personal car in Mass, and the wife got a new car every year. I've heard that you now have to keep employee leases for 2 or 3 years but the payments are still pretty low.

There are hourly jobs at parts distribution centers picking and stocking parts. If the benefits are the same, you are eligible for employee purchases after 6 months and employee leases after 5 years.

There are also hourly jobs at the port of entry (the closest ones to you are in Newark, NJ and S. Boston. There are people who accessorize the vehicles, drive them to the truck staging areas, detailers, etc.

Thanks. Um, I don't think it's woryh going to S. Boston for detailing... :)

BUT, since you've been gone, they have a railhead in Brookfield most likeley for the US made cars.

"Ray O" wrote: snip

So, Ray, you seem to be saying that ALL automatic transmissions have a separate torque converter?. I used to think that this was a function of the AT itself...do any manual transmission cars have a torque converter?

I doubt if all automatic transmissions have a separate torque converter. I thought VW's early Auto-Stick had some kind of automatic clutch and I have not studied a CVT to see how it works so I don't know if it has a TC or not.

It is probably safe to say that all modern "conventional" automatic transmissions with planetary gears have torque converters. A TC provides torque multiplication when accelerating from a standstill, slippage when stopped, and with modern electronics, lockup when cruising. Automatic transmissions have come a long ways. I'd bet that almost all have a locking torque converter, 4 and 5-speeds are common, and 6 speeds are starting to show up so that performance and fuel economy are the same or better than manual transmissions.

Gord ... QUIT trolling. LOL

What is meant by a "separate torque converter?"

I recall those old autosticks having a clutch sandwiched between the flywheel and a torque converter with a conventional gear box. (not bands/clutches/planetary gears).

Not gonna work anyway. I tried it this afternoon...nothing. Then I chaked the resistance on the soleniods again. sL=0 ohms. Dead short...zip...nada...nothing...

s2 read OK, s1 is open...

Not trolling Phillip...really. Why I asked about TC on manuals is that, although I've never seen one on a car I did see one on a 'mule' (a tractor used to tow aircraft around). It had, I think, a four speed manual with a torque converter...was quite handy, you could get very smooth starts with it (which you need in that service)

I couldn't tell if Gord was trolling or not. Maybe he meant one that you can pull out of the bell housing?

I thought those autosticks were a pretty clever idea at the time, kind of the best of both worlds... Of course I never drove one so I have no idea how they performed.

If the mule was towing a United aircraft, it's a Toyota. Toyota Material Handling ("TMH"), formerly Toyota Industrial Equipment ("TIE"), originally Toyota Industrial Trucks (you get why they changed the company name) supplies mules to United Airlines.